Trump's foreign policy speech

Rana said:
I'm done being nice, I after listening to this foreign policy speech, I plan to just tell people they are idiots for voting for him. There is no other explanation.
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That's exactly where I'm at. First time in my life - I didn't even get that way w/ Bush.

It's easy for me to see what Trump is about, and that he is 100% a fraud. It is inexplicable to me how others do not see it. He stood on a stage with randomly purchased steaks on a table behind him, and said they were Trump Steaks and that the company was still in business, even though it folded over 2 years ago. And then he dared the press to fact check him.

He is a con man. And he isn't even that smart about it. That others are fooled is something I'm not going to dance around anymore. They're just stupid.
 
tsuke said:
the other 2 would insist on nationbuilding.
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AHEM *cough cough* have you not read Obama's self described greatest failure??

It was "not doing enough to rebuild Libya" ...not that we were ever going to put boots in Libya,but that is his excuse de jour'

Barack Obama says Libya was 'worst mistake' of his presidency
Failing to plan’ for the aftermath of Muammar Gaddafi’s downfall is the US president’s biggest regret from his time in office
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ays-libya-was-worst-mistake-of-his-presidency
 
anatta said:
without a doubt Hillary is a "neo-lib" ( to use that term). she hasn't met an intervention she hasn't embraced-
and then she defends it with claims of "Smart power"

what is so smart about destroying Libya, or meddling in Syria, or voting for the Iraq war????
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ironic that people who hated bush will now be voting for the same foreign policy with hillary.

btw im glad were finally on the same side :)
 
anatta said:
AHEM *cough cough* have you not read Obama's self described greatest failure??

It was "not doing enough to rebuild Libya" ...not that we were ever going to put boots in Libya,but that is his excuse de jour'

Barack Obama says Libya was 'worst mistake' of his presidency
Failing to plan’ for the aftermath of Muammar Gaddafi’s downfall is the US president’s biggest regret from his time in office
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ays-libya-was-worst-mistake-of-his-presidency
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his greatest failure was getting involved in the first place. To his credit he was dragged kicking and screaming into it but he let himself be dragged. The french went in first then they had to get an arab league resolution but he ultimately adopted the neocon policy.
 
Thing1 said:
I completely disagree that it hasn't been specific. I watched a lot of coverage yesterday - CNN in particular was not ridiculing at all. They were certainly skeptical, though, and went into great detail about the contradictions in Trump's word, as well as some historical context on nationalism and how it generally hasn't worked as an overriding philosophy for foreign policy.

They didn't skip the details.
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I was working and missed coverage yesterday. I do agree the "America first" is flawed when that becomes the sole driver of policy -
much like "human rights" as sole driver.

Anything other then realpolitik is bogus..it's important to se things as they are.

The problem here though is simply criticizing Trump without excoriating Hillary and Obama to a large extent
makes it look like Obama is handing off some kina foreign policy successes -he's not - and Hillary is one dangerous interventionist.

So a little balance and fact based critiques for all sides would go a long way to un-muddling the situations
 
tsuke said:
his greatest failure was getting involved in the first place. To his credit he was dragged kicking and screaming into it but he let himself be dragged. The french went in first then they had to get an arab league resolution but he ultimately adopted the neocon policy.
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yes....pretty much. Once we became belligerents in Libya it became like Iraq "you break it you own it" ( Powell Doctrine).

The problem is Hillary owns that intervention, and the rise of ISIS in Libya because of it..Her own State Dept "tic toc on Libya"
email release is quite damning
++
From: Jake Sullivan
Sant: Sunday, August 21, 2011 7:40 PM
To: Mills, Cheryl D; Nuiand, Victoria J
Subject: tidc todc on Libya

this is basically off the top of my head, with a few consultations of my notes. but it shows S'Clinton
leadership/ownership/stewardship of this country's libya policy from start to finish, let me know what you
think. toria, who else might be able to add to this?

Secretary Clinton's leadership on Libya
HRC has been a critical voice on Libya in administration deliberations, at NATO, and in contact group
meetings — as well as the public face of the U.S. effort in Libya. She was instrumental in securing the
authorization, building the coalition, and tightening the noose around Qadhafi and his regime.
 ( details @link)
https://foia.state.gov/searchapp/DOCUMENTS/HRC_Email_1_296/HRCH1/DOC_0C05739752/C05739752.pdf
 
anatta said:
I was working and missed coverage yesterday. I do agree the "America first" is flawed when that becomes the sole driver of policy -
much like "human rights" as sole driver.

Anything other then realpolitik is bogus..it's important to se things as they are.

The problem here though is simply criticizing Trump without excoriating Hillary and Obama to a large extent
makes it look like Obama is handing off some kina foreign policy successes -he's not - and Hillary is one dangerous interventionist.

So a little balance and fact based critiques for all sides would go a long way to un-muddling the situations
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america first is realpolitik. Its having the option to walk away if its not to our best interest as opposed to being deseperate for a deal.
Its not isolanism. Its both sides benefitting. Look if you want the US to pay for everything like now it will collapse and you will have to pay for everything in the future.
Though of course other countries look to their self interest first so a US collapse does not really factor much into their calculations.
 
tsuke said:
ironic that people who hated bush will now be voting for the same foreign policy with hillary.

btw im glad were finally on the same side :)
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Hillary is a politically expedient person. She gets it. As a woman running for President, she can't talk or act in a way that hints at pacifism at all. She has to be a hawk.

That doesn't make it excusable, at all. Her Iraq vote is fairly unforgivable in particular.

That said, if I had to choose between her & Trump on foreign policy, it's a no brainer: Hillary understands world affairs, is well-versed on all of the issues facing us and has fairly traditional strategies to address them. She won't change the world and may not even improve things that much, but she won't be dangerous, at least relatively.

Trump is a loose canon, and is dangerously naive about world affairs and policy. He's basically a real estate guy with no experience beyond sales & marketing, who watches a lot of cable political shows like the rest of us. He's scary.
 
Rana said:
I'm done being nice, I after listening to this foreign policy speech, I plan to just tell people they are idiots for voting for him. There is no other explanation.
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That's because you can't give any. I don't know what has gotten into you today, but you are not explaining anything and being rude. I enjoyed our conversations the past few days though.
 
Thing1 said:
I honestly don't care how elitist this sounds, or how arrogant - Trump's entire candidacy merits ridicule. It is ridiculous; I don't see why people need to sugarcoat that, or pretend it is anything but that.
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I was going to say something about the last two elections but...never mind lol.
 
Northwestman said:
That's because you can't give any. I don't know what has gotten into you today, but you are not explaining anything and being rude. I enjoyed our conversations the past few days though.
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I am tired of being polite to idiots. If you can't see this guys is a joke, I can't help you.
 
Thing1 said:
Hillary is a politically expedient person. She gets it. As a woman running for President, she can't talk or act in a way that hints at pacifism at all. She has to be a hawk.

That doesn't make it excusable, at all. Her Iraq vote is fairly unforgivable in particular.

That said, if I had to choose between her & Trump on foreign policy, it's a no brainer: Hillary understands world affairs, is well-versed on all of the issues facing us and has fairly traditional strategies to address them. She won't change the world and may not even improve things that much, but she won't be dangerous, at least relatively.

Trump is a loose canon, and is dangerously naive about world affairs and policy. He's basically a real estate guy with no experience beyond sales & marketing, who watches a lot of cable political shows like the rest of us. He's scary.
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she's a fuck up and has already been "dangerous".
I remind you of Harry S who was a haberdasher and stood in for FDR and got us thru to victory in WWII..

I'm not making my mind up about Trump until I hear much more about his foreign policy in debates.
I have made up my mind he's not been serious so far, choosing platitudes instead of details.
So far 3rd party looks the only sane ( if unfulfilling) option.

But Hillary is a known screw up/panderbear...there isn't anything to recommend her either.
 
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