Trump says he ended automatic citizenship for the children of illegal aliens

AProudLefty said:
"All persons" is not ambiguous.
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All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Illegal Aliens are not permanent residents, they can't vote, their drivers licenses are not universally accepted in all states, they cannot be drafted to defend the US. They can be required to pay taxes in their own country and to serve in the military of their own country or vote in their own country. American Indians no matter where they were born were not citizens. US marshals could investigate and make arrests on Indian reservations so they were subject to our criminal laws. And Indians not born on the reservations were still not citizens prior to 1924.

Bingham the author of the 14th amendment never said a single word saying American Indians should be US citizens even though he gave multiple speech's and wrote multiple papers. Congress obviously didn't think American Indians were automatically citizens and they were a lot closer to when the 14th was written in 1868 than we are today. So they understood it better than we do 157 years later.

In Elk v Wilkins (1884) the SCOTUS V ruled that Elk was NOT a US citizen even though he was born within the US because he was subject to his tribes' jurisdiction. Bingham was still alive and politically active yet he never commented on the decision. Surely he would have spoken up if the SCOTUS got it wrong.

So now try to explain to me again why Congress had to pass the Indian Citizenship Act because by your definition they were already citizens.
 
AProudLefty said:
What context?

View attachment 49149
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That's just the first section.

Here's the WHOLE amendment.

Fourteenth Amendment​

Fourteenth Amendment Explained


Section 1​



All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.



Section 2​



Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.



Section 3​



No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.



Section 4​



The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.



Section 5​



The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
 
AProudLefty said:
" Some tribes were treated as separate, sovereign nations, leading to the exclusion of Native Americans from the protections of the Fourteenth Amendment. "

There's your answer
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ALL tribes are separate sovereign nations, Sybil.
There is no exclusions.

ALL members of an indian tribe in the United States is a citizen of the United States, the tribe, any confederation that tribe is a member of, but NOT a citizen of the State the tribal land happens to be in.

YOUR argument has already been debunked by FastLane. Continuing to chant mindlessly doesn't work, Sybil.
 
AProudLefty said:
" Some tribes were treated as separate, sovereign nations, leading to the exclusion of Native Americans from the protections of the Fourteenth Amendment. "

There's your answer
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They weren't citizens even if they were born off the reservations. And people on the reservations were still subject to our laws because US Marshals could investigate and make arrests on reservations. If an American Indian wasn't an American Citizen a child of two El Salvadoran sure as hell isn't an American citizen. So there your argument is demolished.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
That's just the first section.

Here's the WHOLE amendment.

Fourteenth Amendment​

Fourteenth Amendment Explained


Section 1​



All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.



Section 2​



Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.



Section 3​



No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.



Section 4​



The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.



Section 5​



The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
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I'm sorry but I don't see where it says anything about being born in the US except in section 1.

"All persons" is not ambiguous.
 
FastLane said:
They weren't citizens even if they were born off the reservations. And people on the reservations were still subject to our laws because US Marshals could investigate and make arrests on reservations. If an American Indian wasn't an American Citizen a child of two El Salvadoran sure as hell isn't an American citizen. So there your argument is demolished.
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It says ALL PERSONS born in the US. Sorry. Trump has no power. Only the Congress does.
 
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

Why have the exclusionary clause "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" if no one is excluded?

Why not just say.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
 
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