Insults when you have no argument you right-wingnut.
Trump Pressures Pence to Reject Electoral Votes
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Insults when you have no argument you right-wingnut.
reagansghost
eternal
I hope this T****/Pence lunch is recorded, getting some great material from the orange Mussolini lately
Geeko Sportivo
Verified User
You gotta' put yourself in Mike Pence shoes for a minute to know what he will do.
Let's face a fact- DONALD TRUMP HAS NO CHANCE AT CONGRESS CHANGING THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE AND HAND THE WIN OVER TO DONALD TRUMP- EVEN IF PENCE REJECTS THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE TOMORROW.
And, Mike Pence already knows he has some confessions to cover,, to even have a chance at running in 2024.
So even though he has appeared to be the world's largest jelly fish, serving Donald Trump as VP, he now has this chance to wing himself off of being DOnald Trump's shoe shine boy, stand up like a man and denounce Donald Trump and his coup publicly, by announcing Joe Biden as president of the United States.
Mike Pence, posturing himseslf for a run in 2024, will probably write a book, over the next 4 years, explaining how he had to grit his teeth and bear looking like a jelly fish, FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THE GOOD OF THE NATION and it's people. He will have story after story on how he advised Donald Trump not to do a lot of crazy things we would have done had he not been there to talk him out of it.
That's not going to sell to anyone left of center, but it may be a stake in the ground to restoring the GOP back to sanity and civility.
Let's face a fact- DONALD TRUMP HAS NO CHANCE AT CONGRESS CHANGING THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE AND HAND THE WIN OVER TO DONALD TRUMP- EVEN IF PENCE REJECTS THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE TOMORROW.
And, Mike Pence already knows he has some confessions to cover,, to even have a chance at running in 2024.
So even though he has appeared to be the world's largest jelly fish, serving Donald Trump as VP, he now has this chance to wing himself off of being DOnald Trump's shoe shine boy, stand up like a man and denounce Donald Trump and his coup publicly, by announcing Joe Biden as president of the United States.
Mike Pence, posturing himseslf for a run in 2024, will probably write a book, over the next 4 years, explaining how he had to grit his teeth and bear looking like a jelly fish, FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THE GOOD OF THE NATION and it's people. He will have story after story on how he advised Donald Trump not to do a lot of crazy things we would have done had he not been there to talk him out of it.
That's not going to sell to anyone left of center, but it may be a stake in the ground to restoring the GOP back to sanity and civility.
BidenPresident
Verified User
I don't even care about Biden anymore. If Democrats don't come on strong against the GOP they will recover.
Geeko Sportivo
Verified User
The GOP can only recover if they hang on to the Senate and remain obstructionists and antagonists.
We should know how this is going to play out by midnight!
I feel sorry for America, if the Democrats fail to regain the leadership in the Senate today.
BidenPresident
Verified User
I am with you. But even if Dems don't gain control of the Senate they can use the Bully Pulpit to lead America
December 26, 2020
It's for Mike Pence to Judge whether a Presidential Election Was Held at All
By Ted Noel
On January 6, a joint session of Congress will open with Vice President Pence presiding as president of the Senate. His power will be plenary and unappealable. You heard that right. As president of the Senate, every objection comes directly to him, and he can rule any objection "out of order" or "denied." His task will be to fulfill his oath of office to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States and to ensure that the laws be faithfully executed. This is a high standard of performance, and V.P. Pence will have two choices. He can roll over on "certified" electors, or he can uphold the law.
Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution gives state legislatures "plenary authority" as enunciated in Bush v. Gore. This is key, since the counting of votes is discussed in Article II, the 12th Amendment, and 3 USC 15. To this we must add the history of counting and objections recounted by Alexander Macris (here and here). Put bluntly, it's as clear as mud. Add to that the fact that the contested states of Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, New Mexico, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin have sent dueling slates of electors to D.C. This means that the V.P. has to decide how he will handle the situation when two sealed envelopes are handed to him from any of those states.
Macris points out that in 1800, even with constitutional deficiencies in Georgia, Thomas Jefferson blithely counted defective electoral votes from Georgia, effectively voting himself into the presidency. This demonstrates that the president of the Senate is the final authority on any motions or objections during the vote-counting. There is no appeal. That doesn't mean there won't be any outrage. Whatever Pence does, people will be angry. But what does the law demand?
Seven contested states clearly violated their own laws. Rather than list the facts, which have been detailed in multiple articles, we must consider the following:
An election is a process of counting votes for candidates. Only valid, lawful votes may be counted. A valid lawful vote is:
Cast by an eligible, properly registered elector as prescribed by laws enacted by the state Legislature.
Cast in a timely manner, as prescribed by laws enacted by the state Legislature.
Cast in a proper form as prescribed by laws enacted by the state Legislature.
Any process that does not follow these rules is not an election. Anything that proceeds from it cannot be regarded as having any lawful import.
Most commentators suggest that a process of collecting pieces of paper with marks on them is an election regardless of errors, omissions, and even deliberate malfeasance. This is a mistake. Imagine a golf tournament where every bad shot by one player gets a do-over, but the competing player has to follow USGA rules in detail. One player gets to drop freely out of hazards, but the other has to tackle every embedded ball as it lies. The result is a travesty.
The same thing applies to elections. If there are a handful of improper votes, we can suggest that there was in fact an election, perhaps tainted, but the election wasn't materially harmed. But when the people charged with managing the election decide to ignore the law, whatever process they supervise is not the process defined by the law. Therefore, it is not an election.
This leaves V.P. Pence with a dilemma. He is a gentleman who regards our governmental traditions with a degree of reverence, so he will be reluctant to take any bold action. But as an honorable man, faced with massive illegality, he must act to protect the law. Consider how things might go down as the two closed envelopes from Georgia are handed to the V.P. Rather than opening them, he says:
In my hand are envelopes purporting to contain electoral votes from Georgia. They are competing for consideration, so it is essential that I consider the law that governs this. That law, according to the Legislature of Georgia and Article II, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution is the Georgia statute that includes procedures for signature-matching on absentee ballots, a requirement that all absentee ballots be first requested by a legitimate voter, and that election monitors be meaningfully present at all times while votes were counted.
The Georgia secretary of state, who is not empowered by the U.S. Constitution to make changes to election law, entered into a Consent Decree that gutted these protections enacted by the Georgia Legislature. The processes that he prescribed and were ultimately followed were manifestly contrary to that law. Further, the State of Georgia, in unprecedented concert with other states, suspended counting of ballots in the middle of the night, covering its conspiracy with a false claim of a "water main break." We now know from surveillance video that many thousands of "ballots" were counted unlawfully in the absence of legally required observers.
Finally, the State of Georgia, under the authority of secretary of state Brad Raffensperger, a non-legislative actor, used fatally flawed Dominion voting machines that have been demonstrated to be unreliable. In testing, the error rate of Dominion machines has exceeded 60%, far in excess of legal limits. They are designed to facilitate fraud without creating the legally required paper trail. This alone is far more than enough to swing an election.
Since the state of Georgia has failed to follow the election law established by its legislature under Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution, it has not conducted a presidential election. Therefore, no "presidential electors" were appointed in Georgia. Further, "electors" "certified" by non-legislative actors pursuant to this process are in fact not "presidential electors." The competing slate of "electors" is similarly deficient, having not been elected through a presidential election.
Therefore, the chair rules that Georgia has not transmitted the votes of any presidential electors to this body. Georgia presents zero votes for Donald Trump and zero votes for Joseph Biden.
The central point is that the VP, as the presiding officer and final authority, has the unquestionable authority to declare that the states in question have not conducted presidential elections. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth, but no one has the authority to override his decision.
The statement says nothing about who might or might not have "won" the contested states. Rather, by not following their own laws, as enacted by their own legislatures, they have violated Article II, Section 1. Thus, they have not conducted an election, and their results are void.
If the votes of all seven contested states are registered as zero, President Trump will have 232 votes, and Joe Biden will have 222. The 12th Amendment says, "[T]he votes shall then be counted[.] ... The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President[.]"
In plain language, Donald Trump will be re-elected, since he has a majority of the actual electoral votes. There will be no need to involve the House of Representatives to resolve a contingent election.
Richard Nixon chose not to contest the 1960 election because he felt that winning that way would lead to an ungovernable country. If V.P. Pence does this, that same argument might be made. But is the country governable even now? Blue states such as California, Oregon, Washington, New York, New Jersey, and Michigan are already operating in an openly lawless manner with their "emergency" "COVID-related" restrictions. Their denial of the civil rights of law-abiding citizens is horrific. Their refusal to do basic policing and law enforcement is a recipe for open war. How much worse would things be if the V.P. lived up to his oath and upheld the law?
https://www.americanthinker.com/art..._a_presidential_election_was_held_at_all.html
It's for Mike Pence to Judge whether a Presidential Election Was Held at All
By Ted Noel
On January 6, a joint session of Congress will open with Vice President Pence presiding as president of the Senate. His power will be plenary and unappealable. You heard that right. As president of the Senate, every objection comes directly to him, and he can rule any objection "out of order" or "denied." His task will be to fulfill his oath of office to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States and to ensure that the laws be faithfully executed. This is a high standard of performance, and V.P. Pence will have two choices. He can roll over on "certified" electors, or he can uphold the law.
Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution gives state legislatures "plenary authority" as enunciated in Bush v. Gore. This is key, since the counting of votes is discussed in Article II, the 12th Amendment, and 3 USC 15. To this we must add the history of counting and objections recounted by Alexander Macris (here and here). Put bluntly, it's as clear as mud. Add to that the fact that the contested states of Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, New Mexico, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin have sent dueling slates of electors to D.C. This means that the V.P. has to decide how he will handle the situation when two sealed envelopes are handed to him from any of those states.
Macris points out that in 1800, even with constitutional deficiencies in Georgia, Thomas Jefferson blithely counted defective electoral votes from Georgia, effectively voting himself into the presidency. This demonstrates that the president of the Senate is the final authority on any motions or objections during the vote-counting. There is no appeal. That doesn't mean there won't be any outrage. Whatever Pence does, people will be angry. But what does the law demand?
Seven contested states clearly violated their own laws. Rather than list the facts, which have been detailed in multiple articles, we must consider the following:
An election is a process of counting votes for candidates. Only valid, lawful votes may be counted. A valid lawful vote is:
Cast by an eligible, properly registered elector as prescribed by laws enacted by the state Legislature.
Cast in a timely manner, as prescribed by laws enacted by the state Legislature.
Cast in a proper form as prescribed by laws enacted by the state Legislature.
Any process that does not follow these rules is not an election. Anything that proceeds from it cannot be regarded as having any lawful import.
Most commentators suggest that a process of collecting pieces of paper with marks on them is an election regardless of errors, omissions, and even deliberate malfeasance. This is a mistake. Imagine a golf tournament where every bad shot by one player gets a do-over, but the competing player has to follow USGA rules in detail. One player gets to drop freely out of hazards, but the other has to tackle every embedded ball as it lies. The result is a travesty.
The same thing applies to elections. If there are a handful of improper votes, we can suggest that there was in fact an election, perhaps tainted, but the election wasn't materially harmed. But when the people charged with managing the election decide to ignore the law, whatever process they supervise is not the process defined by the law. Therefore, it is not an election.
This leaves V.P. Pence with a dilemma. He is a gentleman who regards our governmental traditions with a degree of reverence, so he will be reluctant to take any bold action. But as an honorable man, faced with massive illegality, he must act to protect the law. Consider how things might go down as the two closed envelopes from Georgia are handed to the V.P. Rather than opening them, he says:
In my hand are envelopes purporting to contain electoral votes from Georgia. They are competing for consideration, so it is essential that I consider the law that governs this. That law, according to the Legislature of Georgia and Article II, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution is the Georgia statute that includes procedures for signature-matching on absentee ballots, a requirement that all absentee ballots be first requested by a legitimate voter, and that election monitors be meaningfully present at all times while votes were counted.
The Georgia secretary of state, who is not empowered by the U.S. Constitution to make changes to election law, entered into a Consent Decree that gutted these protections enacted by the Georgia Legislature. The processes that he prescribed and were ultimately followed were manifestly contrary to that law. Further, the State of Georgia, in unprecedented concert with other states, suspended counting of ballots in the middle of the night, covering its conspiracy with a false claim of a "water main break." We now know from surveillance video that many thousands of "ballots" were counted unlawfully in the absence of legally required observers.
Finally, the State of Georgia, under the authority of secretary of state Brad Raffensperger, a non-legislative actor, used fatally flawed Dominion voting machines that have been demonstrated to be unreliable. In testing, the error rate of Dominion machines has exceeded 60%, far in excess of legal limits. They are designed to facilitate fraud without creating the legally required paper trail. This alone is far more than enough to swing an election.
Since the state of Georgia has failed to follow the election law established by its legislature under Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution, it has not conducted a presidential election. Therefore, no "presidential electors" were appointed in Georgia. Further, "electors" "certified" by non-legislative actors pursuant to this process are in fact not "presidential electors." The competing slate of "electors" is similarly deficient, having not been elected through a presidential election.
Therefore, the chair rules that Georgia has not transmitted the votes of any presidential electors to this body. Georgia presents zero votes for Donald Trump and zero votes for Joseph Biden.
The central point is that the VP, as the presiding officer and final authority, has the unquestionable authority to declare that the states in question have not conducted presidential elections. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth, but no one has the authority to override his decision.
The statement says nothing about who might or might not have "won" the contested states. Rather, by not following their own laws, as enacted by their own legislatures, they have violated Article II, Section 1. Thus, they have not conducted an election, and their results are void.
If the votes of all seven contested states are registered as zero, President Trump will have 232 votes, and Joe Biden will have 222. The 12th Amendment says, "[T]he votes shall then be counted[.] ... The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President[.]"
In plain language, Donald Trump will be re-elected, since he has a majority of the actual electoral votes. There will be no need to involve the House of Representatives to resolve a contingent election.
Richard Nixon chose not to contest the 1960 election because he felt that winning that way would lead to an ungovernable country. If V.P. Pence does this, that same argument might be made. But is the country governable even now? Blue states such as California, Oregon, Washington, New York, New Jersey, and Michigan are already operating in an openly lawless manner with their "emergency" "COVID-related" restrictions. Their denial of the civil rights of law-abiding citizens is horrific. Their refusal to do basic policing and law enforcement is a recipe for open war. How much worse would things be if the V.P. lived up to his oath and upheld the law?
https://www.americanthinker.com/art..._a_presidential_election_was_held_at_all.html
reagansghost
eternal
Trump knows absolutely nothing about the constitution, not surprised he's attempting this bullshit
BidenPresident
Verified User
Trump knows what he is doing is illegal.
It seemed that way to me when he took the oath of office. That was treason in and of itself.
I don’t like Pence, but I think he knows this was a fair election, he will let Hawley and Cruz have their little show, but Biden and Harris will be sworn in at Noon on 1-20-2021
BartenderElite
Verified User
I really can't believe intelligent people would think this way, or write something like this.
THAT is the end of the republic, right there.
I mean, good luck w/ that strategy. Usually, when one side loses an election, they regroup and try to win the next one.
Geeko Sportivo
Verified User
Executive Order is a band-aid that gets ripped off the minute a change of power comes into play.
4 steps forward- and then 5 steps back!
Rinse and repeat the process!
BidenPresident
Verified User
We're old school. Break the law and go to jail. Oh, well. New era.
reagansghost
eternal
I know but his cultists have no idea, home schooling strikes again
BidenPresident
Verified User
The Biden Administration should tell all nations that nothing the past President said has validity to the United States now.
BidenPresident
Verified User
I've been told that kids in school no longer are required to take a civics class. This may be state by state, but it's troubling to hear.
No shit and to think they are doing this fabricated fraud dance not for Lincoln or George Washington or Eisenhower, or Thomas Jefferson, they are
doing this for the worst fucking impeached diabolical narcissist incompetent criminal cheating racist lying scumbag ever to disgrace that office!!!! WTF?
reagansghost
eternal
definitely