Trump and Damocles argue the President can violate the Constitution.

President Trump on Wednesday brought the legal dispute over his immigration executive order into the court of public opinion, using a Washington law enforcement address to mount an urgent defense of the measure and urge the federal courts to reinstate it.

At a meeting with local sheriffs and police chiefs, the president said he issued the immigration order “for the security of our nation, the security of our citizens, so that people come in who aren't going to do us harm.”

He spoke after a hearing late Tuesday during which the Justice Department presented its arguments to the San Francisco-based 9th Circuit Court of Appeals.

The DOJ is fighting to overturn a Seattle judge’s decision to halt the controversial order that suspended the U.S. refugee program and immigration from seven mostly Muslim countries: Iraq, Iran, Syria, Yemen, Libya, Somalia and Sudan. A decision could come at any time.

"We're in an area where, let's just say, they are interpreting things differently from probably 100 pecent of people in this room," Trump said.

Trump read out parts of the federal law outlining presidential powers on the subject, saying it was written clearly and "beautifully.”

The part of the U.S. Code he read specifies that when the president "finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation ... suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate."



Trump said he listened to the judges Tuesday and, while vowing not to comment specifically on the hearing, said: "I listened to a bunch of stuff last night on television that was disgraceful, it was disgraceful."

Supporters of Trump's order say it will help keep America safe from terrorists looking to infiltrate the United States from terror hotspots that often have inadequate vetting procedures. Opponents have argued it is unconstitutional and discriminatory – claiming that it is a “Muslim ban.”

During Tuesday's hearing, Washington state Solicitor General Noah Purcell argued that Trump campaign statements about a Muslim ban showed discriminatory intent.

"There are statements that we've quoted in our complaint that are rather shocking evidence of intent to discriminate against Muslims, given that we haven't even had any discovery yet to find out what else might have been said in private," Purcell said.

Trump has waded into the legal battle before, largely on Twitter. He recently called the judge who halted the order, James Robart, a “so-called judge” and earlier Wednesday warned on Twitter that, “If the U.S. does not win this case as it so obviously should, we can never have the security and safety to which we are entitled.”

Trump refuses to acknowledge the real issues. I don't think anyone has questioned weather Congress's grant of power was legal. That is clear. The point is that the President's power is not ABSOLUTE as Trump and Damo are trying to get people to believe.
 
That is my entire point!

I realize you are not a Constitutional lawyer..the 9th orals were throwing in all kinds of superfluous
points -looking for "intent" -questioning policy; when the plain wording is what needs to be decided-
based on Constitutional authority and any relevant statutes....period
 
SO he is not right.... He said the presidents power was absolute, case closed... then attacked my knowledge about Constitutional law because I pointed out the action still had to conform to the Constitution.

I did not say that. The only setting you have is Full Strawman. You couldn't be less honest about what I said. It certainly would be easy to argue against somebody that said "The President can do whatever he wants in regard to immigration." But I didn't say that.

And comments from Giulliani are not a legal argument. Had he wanted to ban all Muslims there are 22 countries that would be on that list, not 7. The reality is, the order temporarily suspends travel and entry to people from a specific list of bad actors that Obama's Administration put together as the places most dangerous to US interests and is within the authority granted to him by US Code 1182 in Section 13(f).
 
I realize you are not a Constitutional lawyer..the 9th orals were throwing in all kinds of superfluous
points -looking for "intent" -questioning policy; when the plain wording is what needs to be decided-
based on Constitutional authority and any relevant statutes....period

Absolutely FALSE. The 9th needs to decide if Washington State has jurisdiction and if they have a reasonable likelihood of winning, and if people are likely harmed if the status quo is maintained until the Court can hold a full hearing.
 
Trump refuses to acknowledge the real issues. I don't think anyone has questioned weather Congress's grant of power was legal. That is clear. The point is that the President's power is not ABSOLUTE as Trump and Damo are trying to get people to believe.

There is nothing in that argument that states that Trump's power is "ABSOLUTE"... It is incredibly specific, not absolute and he is granted that small portion of power by the Plenary authority (per the constitution).

Again, you use the strawman argument and prove again to be the worst lawyer I have ever had the opportunity to speak with regarding legal arguments. You simply cannot be honest about what was stated and therefore simply repeat nonsense about what you wished I said and then argue against that. I wonder if this actually works in court. I seriously doubt it would, but then I may be overly optimistic of the intelligence of people on a jury during a lawsuit...
 
I did not say that. The only setting you have is Full Strawman. You couldn't be less honest about what I said. It certainly would be easy to argue against somebody that said "The President can do whatever he wants in regard to immigration." But I didn't say that.

And comments from Giulliani are not a legal argument. Had he wanted to ban all Muslims there are 22 countries that would be on that list, not 7. The reality is, the order temporarily suspends travel and entry to people from a specific list of bad actors that Obama's Administration put together as the places most dangerous to US interests and is within the authority granted to him by US Code 1182 in Section 13(f).

This is what you said:

"Again. The congress has absolute over Immigration and Naturalization. In this instance they passed a law granting the President Authority, in this circumstance, to exercise that authority. There is no Constitutional or Legislative challenge that will stand.

It really isn't difficult. There is no constitutional violation. Just as Congress can give Obama authority to change the ACA using executive authority, they can in this case grant him authority to exercise their power...

It isn't difficult. Simple and direct path, the people who have the authority can grant the Executive the ability to exercise their authority under certain circumstances.

And yes, I clearly understand the Constitution better than you do. You really should stay out of Constitutional law, you'll never measure up."


You don't seem to understand the 1st or 14th Amendment.
 
SO, now you agree that the President's power is limited by the Constitution and thus it is reviewable and not an easy case?

Jarod you are spinning out of control, dude. We don't need you to spend post after post propping up your argument. We can read and we see based on the progression of posts that you've lost your grip.

Walk away. Take a breather. Smoke a doob.
 
There is nothing in that argument that states that Trump's power is "ABSOLUTE"... It is incredibly specific, not absolute and he is granted that small portion of power by the Plenary authority (per the constitution).

Again, you use the strawman argument and prove again to be the worst lawyer I have ever had the opportunity to speak with regarding legal arguments. You simply cannot be honest about what was stated and therefore simply repeat nonsense about what you wished I said and then argue against that. I wonder if this actually works in court. I seriously doubt it would, but then I may be overly optimistic of the intelligence of people on a jury during a lawsuit...

You called it ABSOLUTE.
 
There is nothing in that argument that states that Trump's power is "ABSOLUTE"... It is incredibly specific, not absolute and he is granted that small portion of power by the Plenary authority (per the constitution).

Again, you use the strawman argument and prove again to be the worst lawyer I have ever had the opportunity to speak with regarding legal arguments. You simply cannot be honest about what was stated and therefore simply repeat nonsense about what you wished I said and then argue against that. I wonder if this actually works in court. I seriously doubt it would, but then I may be overly optimistic of the intelligence of people on a jury during a lawsuit...

You simply did not understand my point so you lashed out. Typical, you are a lot like the President.
 
Jarod you are spinning out of control, dude. We don't need you to spend post after post propping up your argument. We can read and we see based on the progression of posts that you've lost your grip.

Walk away. Take a breather. Smoke a doob.

Pretty clear from the questioning by the 9th judges yesterday... they understood my argument.

They certainly did not buy Damo's absolute argument.
 
There is nothing in that argument that states that Trump's power is "ABSOLUTE"... It is incredibly specific, not absolute and he is granted that small portion of power by the Plenary authority (per the constitution).

Again, you use the strawman argument and prove again to be the worst lawyer I have ever had the opportunity to speak with regarding legal arguments. You simply cannot be honest about what was stated and therefore simply repeat nonsense about what you wished I said and then argue against that. I wonder if this actually works in court. I seriously doubt it would, but then I may be overly optimistic of the intelligence of people on a jury during a lawsuit...

Did you listen to the arguments yesterday? Those judges seem to understand my argument. They clearly did not buy your claim that this is SIMPLE.
 
You simply did not understand my point so you lashed out. Typical, you are a lot like the President.

No, I clearly understand your point and your valueless strawman argument against points I have never stated or made.

At this point it has become useless to have any more conversation with Jarod about this topic. I'm sure he'll dance as if he "won" but my prediction still stands. The SCOTUS will eventually rule in favor of this order, it may be after Gorsuch is on the court to break a 4-4 vote (such tie votes lack precedential value so could be brought again before the court), but eventually this will be upheld and for the reasons I stated above, not for the reasons that Jarod wants to pretend I have stated, but because this specific authority is pretty much direct and easy to interpret law.
 
Absolutely FALSE. The 9th needs to decide if Washington State has jurisdiction and if they have a reasonable likelihood of winning, and if people are likely harmed if the status quo is maintained until the Court can hold a full hearing.
i would assume harm comes into any decision regarding a TRO-
and I can agree to this,but not the Muslim ban, intent, establishment clause, Guliani etc.
 
No, I clearly understand your point and your valueless strawman argument against points I have never stated or made.

At this point it has become useless to have any more conversation with Jarod about this topic. I'm sure he'll dance as if he "won" but my prediction still stands. The SCOTUS will eventually rule in favor of this order, it may be after Gorsuch is on the court to break a 4-4 vote (such tie votes lack precedential value so could be brought again before the court), but eventually this will be upheld and for the reasons I stated above, not for the reasons that Jarod wants to pretend I have stated, but because this specific authority is pretty much direct and easy to interpret law.

Your prediction may well be right. Funny, you called it an "easy call" and clear, and argued that I don't understand Constitutional Law.... Yet you predict that 4 United States Supreme Court Justices will agree with me. You have become a fool!
 
i would assume harm comes into any decision regarding a TRO-
and I can agree to this,but not the Muslim ban, intent, establishment clause, Guliani etc.

If the Court determines that the Executive Order will have the effect of discriminating against Muslims disproportionately, the Ban will fail.

The fact that Trump has previously called for a MUSLIM BAN could be used as evidence of his intent.
 
If the Court determines that the Executive Order will have the effect of discriminating against Muslims disproportionately, the Ban will fail.

The fact that Trump has previously called for a MUSLIM BAN could be used as evidence of his intent.
you are back in the weeds again - that was a campaign statement from long ago and has no bearing on his time in Office...and for Great Buddha's sake will you quit with the "Muslim ban"??

The 14th and the 5th are not involved here either.
 
you are back in the weeds again - that was a campaign statement from long ago and has no bearing on his time in Office...and for Great Buddha's sake will you quit with the "Muslim ban"??

The 14th and the 5th are not involved here either.

I dont think I claimed the 5th was involved, but the 14th clearly is.... Did you hear the arguments and questions of the Judges last night?
 
He's right on the merits and there is precedent to support that.

Whether the SC will rule in his favor is unknown. There are contributing factors they may consider .. such as none of the countries with actual involvement in 9/11 are on the list. They may consider Giuliani's comments that Trump wants to ban a religion .. which of course is unconstitutional.

Well, yeah, the US isn't on the list. :cof1:
 
Pretty clear from the questioning by the 9th judges yesterday... they understood my argument.

They certainly did not buy Damo's absolute argument.

Might be, but you're just underscoring the fact that you aren't arguing it in a manner that encourages people to have confidence in your position.

You come across like a greenhorn. Your arguments smack of a law school exercise and your lack of maturity shines unfortunately bright.

As mom used to say: "it's not what you say, but how You say it".
 
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