Trump Administration to Announce Plan to Shield Farmers From Trade War

tinfoil said:
You have a very poor understanding of the issue. Domestic producers can't make their products as cheaply as china due to higher labor costs and more stringent regulation. The tariff allows domestic producers to have the cheaper option domestically. You seem to think they would then want to raise their price so they could once again lose sales by not being the cheapest option. Your logic makes zero sense.
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Domestic producers will raise their prices. The reason is because these tariffs don't cut back on imports at all; they merely add a tax to it that consumers end up paying for, and never in the history of capitalism has a company lowered prices because of tariffs. You're narrowly thinking within the cost of the product, not the cost of the supply chain that brings that imports the product. For a domestic distributor to switch from foreign suppliers to domestic suppliers, you have to create a brand new supply chain and incur costs to expand production. To whom do you think those costs will be passed?
 
LV426 said:
It doesn't sound to me like you know what "central planning" means.
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central planning can have a lot of meanings. democratic economy ( and how do you do that?) has to mean by votes (direct democracy) or representative government somehow runs the economy..there has to be some central planing then-directed by government
 
noise said:
democratic economy ( and how do you do that?)
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Very easily:

Raise wages for workers to the point where they no longer have to rely on government assistance programs to maintain a minimum standard of living, while doing away with the for-profit private insurance industry and creating a single payer that reimburses all providers, as opposed to myriad payers with different standards and overhead costs; and by providing free public colleges to any student who qualifies academically. Finally, you democratize the economy by giving the workers seat(s) on the Board of Directors of every corporation, regardless if it's public or private.
 
noise said:
has to mean by votes (direct democracy) or representative government somehow runs the econom
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In no situation is "democratic socialism" government running the economy. It's government making the economy work for everyone, not just those at the top.

Raising the minimum wage to a point where no single worker has to rely on any kind of public assistance just to maintain a minimum standard of living - that's not government controlling the economy at all.

Establishing a single payer that reimburses providers for care they perform merely shifts the administration of that reimbursement to a single entity as opposed to the myriad that currently exist - that's not government controlling the economy at all, it's merely government doing the administration of health care payments, and I dare you to show me how privatizing the administration somehow produces better outcomes when it comes to health care delivery.

Providing free public colleges controls the economy, how? Private colleges still exist. So that's not government control either.

So what are you talking about?



..there has to be some central planing then-directed by government
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Well, you've already established that "central planning" is a goalpost shifting term you are using to jury-rig your argument after you make it. So it seems to me that you establish a very broad -the most broad- position in order for you to wiggle within the parameters later in the debate as you try to clarify your own thoughts for yourself. Basically, you entered into an argument you didn't think through.
 
LV426 said:
Domestic producers will raise their prices. The reason is because these tariffs don't cut back on imports at all; they merely add a tax to it that consumers end up paying for, and never in the history of capitalism has a company lowered prices because of tariffs. You're narrowly thinking within the cost of the product, not the cost of the supply chain that brings that imports the product. For a domestic distributor to switch from foreign suppliers to domestic suppliers, you have to create a brand new supply chain and incur costs to expand production. To whom do you think those costs will be passed?
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Absolutely correct. U.S. merchants are not going to find new supply chains overnight, if they even bother to search at all. This whole business is extremely complex. By the time you get home with your new pair of Nikes, they will have traveled through multiple hands (and probably countries) to get to your feet. Next year when you go buy another pair, the price will be up by 25-30% because no one else is going to eat the cost of the tariff -- except you.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Absolutely correct. U.S. merchants are not going to find new supply chains overnight, if they even bother to search at all. This whole business is extremely complex. By the time you get home with your new pair of Nikes, they will have traveled through multiple hands (and probably countries) to get to your feet. Next year when you go buy another pair, the price will be up by 25-30% because no one else is going to eat the cost of the tariff -- except you.
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Exactly. Never in the history of tariffs have they resulted in lower prices for consumers.
 
LV426 said:
Exactly. Never in the history of tariffs have they resulted in lower prices for consumers.
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You are right. Let's go back to the shoe scenario if you don't mind. Ostensibly the purpose of tariffs is to "even the playing field" (for everyone but us consumers, of course). The long-range goal is to bring manufacturing back to the U.S., right? We haven't made shoes domestically in decades. How long do you think it would take to build shoe factories -- enough to shoe 300,000,000+ Americans -- hire and train workers, not to mention finding the capital to even build such factories? Ain't gonna happen. But just for the sake of argument, let's say that we find a dozen plucky businessmen who find the capital to build a dozen shoe factories and staff them with robotics and trained workers. The workers will require a competitive salary and benefits. Uh oh. The same pair of Nikes that you bought pre-tariff for $125 now costs you $250, or more. People will stop buying Nikes. Good-bye to that company, and its workers. The only way this will work is if the conservatives get their way and abolish the minimum wage, and Mr. Shoe Maker can hire them for a couple bucks/hour.
 
LV426 said:
Very easily:

Raise wages for workers to the point where they no longer have to rely on government assistance programs to maintain a minimum standard of living, while doing away with the for-profit private insurance industry and creating a single payer that reimburses all providers, as opposed to myriad payers with different standards and overhead costs; and by providing free public colleges to any student who qualifies academically. Finally, you democratize the economy by giving the workers seat(s) on the Board of Directors of every corporation, regardless if it's public or private.
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:rofl2::rofl2:
I'm fine with singlepay. It's a reason I supported Bernie..
But this (bolded) is lunacy. "democratic economy" would wreck a corporation's ability to make decisions
on taxes/expansion, etc..

I'm big on worker's rights as well - one of my family member is a victim of age discrimination;
but workers are not invested players other then stock options .
If they buy enough stock they get to sit on a management board as well
 
Trump Administration to Announce Plan to Shield Farmers From Trade War
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I did not realize Trump boot-lickers were actually prepared to admit that Trump has gotten us into a trade war - with allies and adversaries alike.

Remarkable.

I have never been against tariffs on an as-needed basis for vital American strategic industries.

But I have never advocated or even entertained the notion of allowing our trade policy to be dictated by a beligerant Dumb Ass, who clearly does not know what he's doing, and crows with false bravado that "trade wars are good and easy to win".

That is the hallmark of a blustering fool who does not know what the eff he is doing.
 
noise said:
But this (bolded) is lunacy. "democratic economy" would wreck a corporation's ability to make decisions n taxes/expansion, etc..
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How so?

How does giving workers a voice on the Board of Directors wreck their ability to do anything? You mean wrecks their ability to pilfer income gains and sacrifice workers' rights and safety, right?
 
noise said:
I'm big on worker's rights as well - one of my family member is a victim of age discrimination;
but workers are not invested players other then stock options
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So they're just wage slaves, then?

And you think that's a viable economic model, why?

Also, is the status quo working now? No; which is why we are even having this discussion.


If they buy enough stock they get to sit on a management board as well
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Yeah, that's unrealistic and why workers should get a seat at the table.
 
Photos Show Chinese Factory Workers Making ‘Trump 2020’ Flags
The factory has produced approximately 90,000 “Keep America Great!” flags.

5b58939a200000de02378249.jpeg


Nothing shows the president’s support for American workers like making Trump 2020 swag in China.

Photos released by Reuters on Wednesday show a Chinese factory making flags for President Donald Trump’s 2020 re-election campaign.

Since March, Jiahao Flag Factory, located in Fuyang, Anhui province, has made approximately 90,000 of the flags for use at Trump campaign events, according to Reuters.

The flags reportedly cost about $1 apiece, a price that is likely to go up after Trump’s tariffs on China kick in. The campaign’s suppliers are likely trying to get these prices while they can, the factory manager told Reuters.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...-trump-2020-flags_us_5b589259e4b0b15aba94476a

What absolute morons Trump supporters are.
 
blackascoal said:
Photos Show Chinese Factory Workers Making ‘Trump 2020’ Flags
The factory has produced approximately 90,000 “Keep America Great!” flags.

5b58939a200000de02378249.jpeg


Nothing shows the president’s support for American workers like making Trump 2020 swag in China.

Photos released by Reuters on Wednesday show a Chinese factory making flags for President Donald Trump’s 2020 re-election campaign.

Since March, Jiahao Flag Factory, located in Fuyang, Anhui province, has made approximately 90,000 of the flags for use at Trump campaign events, according to Reuters.

The flags reportedly cost about $1 apiece, a price that is likely to go up after Trump’s tariffs on China kick in. The campaign’s suppliers are likely trying to get these prices while they can, the factory manager told Reuters.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...-trump-2020-flags_us_5b589259e4b0b15aba94476a

What absolute morons Trump supporters are.
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Yep. Amazing. I bet that woman in the photo is lucky to be making a buck a day for her labors.
 
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