Toll lanes on LA freeways?

Mott the Hoople said:
You're crazy. It isn't vague at all. The vast majority of tax dollars that pays for highway construction comes from the regressive federal gas tax.

Again you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Using toll roads can be an affective method for controlling gridlock but double dipping into federal tax dollars too is profoundly unfair.
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It is because tolls could be considered taxpayer money. You have now made it clear that you consider gas taxes, which are a user fee just like tolls, taxpayer money but it is still vague.

Your cake analogy does not apply. Gas taxes are paid by toll road users. There is no reason those funds should not pay for the roads they drive on.

Double dipping? How is it double dipping? Toll roads would obviously require less from the gas tax funds than non toll roads, not twice as much.

Gas taxes should be dispersed based on driver miles, toll or no toll. The problem is that gas taxes do not cover the costs of the roads. Tolls are needed in some of these instances to cover what is not paid for by gas taxes.
 
Sailor said:
Democrats always get upset when they themselves actually have to pay for something......
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I've often wondered about that. Are democrats truly government disciple zombies or are they just fucking hypocrites? Of course, we can't trust a liberal to answer that question honestly, so who really knows?
 
Dick from the Internet said:
It is because tolls could be considered taxpayer money.
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It could, or it could not.

Not all tolls go to the government. Public authorities often have dominion over facilities like bridges and tunnels. They are hybrid public/private entities, often with their own law enforcement agencies.
 
Dick from the Internet said:
???

Because you insist they should not be allowed to pay for the toll roads? That is circular nonsense, Mott.

Toll users pay gas taxes the cost of which accrues to anyone driving. That is, there cars do not stop consuming the gas that they paid taxes on while on toll roads. There is no reason those gas taxes should only go to non toll roads.
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Again, you're crazy. That's the whole purpose of toll roads. If you want to limit access then give up federal dollars or provide fair access to the taxpayers who build the road. You're arguing double taxation to essentially privatize public roads. That's just plain crazy.

Why should my Federal tax dollars go to privatized roads that I do not have fair access to? If you want to privatize roads for a certain agenda in a specific location fine. Issue bonds, absorb the risk and the costs and go your own way but when LA uses my federal tax dollars to privatize their roads and limit my access while accepting y Federal tax dollars then I will have a say.

Your argument makes no sense and is illogical. You can't have it both ways which is what you are arguing.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Again, you're crazy. That's the whole purpose of toll roads. If you want to limit access then give up federal dollars or provide fair access to the taxpayers who build the road. You're arguing double taxation to essentially privatize public roads. That's just plain crazy.

Why should my Federal tax dollars go to privatized roads that I do not have fair access to? If you want to privatize roads for a certain agenda in a specific location fine. Issue bonds, absorb the risk and the costs and go your own way but when LA uses my federal tax dollars to privatize their roads and limit my access while accepting y Federal tax dollars then I will have a say.

Your argument makes no sense and is illogical. You can't have it both ways which is what you are arguing.
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Why do you not have fair access to toll roads Mott?
 
Taft2016 said:
It could, or it could not.

Not all tolls go to the government. Public authorities often have dominion over facilities like bridges and tunnels. They are hybrid public/private entities, often with their own law enforcement agencies.
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That may be true in some cases but does nothing to make "taxpayer money" any less vague. Tolls are user fees just like gas taxes. They are not part of the general revenues either. These are the only real distinction anyone has raised but it applies to gas taxes as well as tolls. If he is not saying using "taxpayer money" here as synonym for general revenue then the distinction makes no sense.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Again, you're crazy. That's the whole purpose of toll roads. If you want to limit access then give up federal dollars or provide fair access to the taxpayers who build the road. You're arguing double taxation to essentially privatize public roads. That's just plain crazy.

Why should my Federal tax dollars go to privatized roads that I do not have fair access to? If you want to privatize roads for a certain agenda in a specific location fine. Issue bonds, absorb the risk and the costs and go your own way but when LA uses my federal tax dollars to privatize their roads and limit my access while accepting y Federal tax dollars then I will have a say.

Your argument makes no sense and is illogical. You can't have it both ways which is what you are arguing.
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Nothing I have said is crazy. It is standard mainstream orthodox economics and you have yet to make your case.

It's not necessarily a privatized road. Any profits go back to or are shared with the government.

Why wouldn't you have fair access to the toll road? Are you suggesting that it is unfair to charge a user fee? Then why have gas taxes at all?

The driver's in LA pay those same federal taxes whether they use toll roads or not. You have no right to deny them the use of those funds for whatever road on which they choose to drive.

You are the one who sounds crazy, Mott. You ignore the alternative that is presented by the fact that gas taxes do not cover the costs of all roads. Because they do not those funds MUST come from somewhere else and if it is not tolls it will be general revenue. Some of that will have been paid by those who will never use the roads or simply cannot use the roads. That's unfair! Using the gas taxes paid by toll road users to fund toll roads is not at all unfair.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
was I405 a toll road?....did it have booths?.....what about the fact its a toll road made it more congested if it wasn't toll booths?.......
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I already told you no fucking toll booths, idiot. As to why the congestion got worse, I think they took away an HOV lane to form one of the express lanes.
 
The fact is that gas taxes have fairness problems. How much gas tax you pay is based on your gas usage. But your burden on the road system is not directly tied to your gas usage. It's based mostly on miles driven. People who are driving fuel efficient cars are being subsidized which might be a result you welcome but the reasons wouldn't be fairness of road financing.


Gas taxes are much easier to collect than a toll, but tolls are probably fairer.
 
Pocahontas said:
I already told you no fucking toll booths, idiot. As to why the congestion got worse, I think they took away an HOV lane to form one of the express lanes.
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Honestly, your article sucked! It was about the political fallout and no real insight on the traffic problem.

I would think it likely caused an unexpected change in driving patterns. But that can happen with any new road.
 
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