T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
He didn't have the advantage of hindsight, historians do.
Today is D-Day, June 6th
- Thread starter archives
- Start date
He didn't have the advantage of hindsight, historians do.
Good insight there. And the reason the left is trying to change it....
cancel2 2022
Canceled
It could we'll have been a different story if they'd gone on 5th June as originally planned.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
No, it'd have turned out the same way. The Germans were going to lose that battle.
On an unrelated note, the deception schemes the Allies put in place were a major reason Hitler didn't release panzer divisions around Calais. There was the phony army supposedly led by Patton, then on D-Day itself, Operations Glimmer and Tinsel were carried out against the Calais defenses. These two involved a very elaborate scheme to fool German radar operators into believing there was a huge invasion force heading towards them. This belief was carried up the German chain of command and reinforced as it went meaning that by the time it reached the top levels of command it was concrete fact.
cancel2 2022
Canceled
Yes the deception schemes were truly brilliant and fooled the Germans. I don't share your optimism about 5th June though, there are many that think it could have gone horribly wrong.
The airborne landings, which were on a scale never before attempted and the amphibious landings, which were also the largest ever in history, had to both be successful before German tanks and other units could be brought forward from the Normandy hinterland.
Have you been to the Normandy coast, can you imagine if the Brits had failed to capture the Pegasus bridge for instance? That's on the main road to Caen where many of the Panzer divisions were based.
Last edited:
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
There was only one panzer division in the immediate vicinity of the landing beaches, the 21st. This division was a rebuild of the 21st Panzer lost in N. Africa as part of Rommel's Afrika Korps. It was one of the weakest, if not the weakest, panzer divisions in France. The division was formed from the workshop units under Colonel Alfred Becker as Baukommando Becker and consisted largely of ex-French 1940's armor that was modified by Becker's men to make it sort of fit for combat.
The division had one battalion of Pz IV tanks (analogous in combat power to a Sherman with a 75mm gun), while it's second battalion of tanks was comprised of obsolete older model Pz IV's (C to F with a short 75mm unsuited to armored combat in 1944), along with about 50 ex-French S 35 SOUMA tanks with a 47mm gun that were completely unsuited to frontline service in 1944. Most of the rest of the division used various conversions of ex-French tanks as self-propelled guns, while the panzergrenadiers (infantry) were in modified ex-French halftracks and trucks.
SOUMA S-35's in German service like the ones in 21st Panzer on D-Day.
Another fact is that there wasn't a single actual Pz VI Tiger tank anywhere in Normandy on D-Day and the first, 1 Kp of the 503 s. Pz Abt didn't go into action until June 11th.
The Saving Private Ryan final battle is based on the actual la Fiere bridge battle with the 505th AIR of the 82nd Airborne being the primary unit on the US side. The Germans attempted to take this bridge with a scratch force of infantry and some ex-French light tanks from Pz Abt 206.
That's a picture of one of about a dozen H-35 tanks that participated on the German side (a light 2 man tank with a stubby 37mm gun). These were decimated by US M1 57mm antitank guns glider troops moved up to support the paratroops.
A second pic of another of these relics that was knocked out.
Like I said, D-Day wasn't going to fail no matter how badly the Allies screwed up. They applied overwhelming force on the defending Germans.
Tanks from Pz Abt 206 prior to the invasion
Last edited:
Airstrip One
Completely Effed
We need to ban guns.
cancel2 2022
Canceled
.
Von Rundstedt secured Hitler’s permission to release formations from the armoured reserve. The 12th SS Hitlerjugend and Panzer Lehr lead elements arrived on the following day. If they had been there on the 5th then it may well have been a different story. The British played the lead in knocking out Panthers as it was a formidable opponent superior to most Allied tanks, but vulnerable to the British 17-pounder gun mounted on the Firefly.
So if Rommel hadn't gone to visit his wife and many of the top generals were away from the beaches, who knows what have happened. Of course the Allies were extremely lucky to have a fool like Hitler calling the shots as well.
Von Rundstedt secured Hitler’s permission to release formations from the armoured reserve. The 12th SS Hitlerjugend and Panzer Lehr lead elements arrived on the following day. If they had been there on the 5th then it may well have been a different story. The British played the lead in knocking out Panthers as it was a formidable opponent superior to most Allied tanks, but vulnerable to the British 17-pounder gun mounted on the Firefly.
So if Rommel hadn't gone to visit his wife and many of the top generals were away from the beaches, who knows what have happened. Of course the Allies were extremely lucky to have a fool like Hitler calling the shots as well.
saltydancin
Verified User
Here's Russia's Orthodox Church "man is God" rootin' tootin' Putin playing judge, jury & executioner with Ukraine just as Byrd's West Nazi Germany Virginia churchstate of hate Federal Lynching drug trafficking enforcement to eradicate Jewish synagogues just as those burning Bush's 9/11 Islam "death to the infidels" Federal Lynching drug trafficking enforcement KKK churchstate of hate fiefdom "serve the Pope or die" relentless thieving US Constitution - old glory - old testament arsonists master plan of a not so master race for the 21st century to further eradicate Jewish synagogues as bungling GI Joe is biding his time....
I think that travesty and embarrassment to the nation happened on a commemoration of the end of World War I. He claimed that the Secret Service told him not to go because the rain was too dangerous, even though it didn't harm the rest of the world's leaders who were also there.
Trump cancels WW1 memorial at U.S. cemetery in France due to rain
Monad Portal
Was it me?
Monad Portal
Was it me?
but actual embarrasment is the biden administration's every action.