“Three weeks and 39 mass shootings. This is America in 2023”

[LV426]

What about against more than one attacker?

Then she's even LESS LIKELY to be able to draw her gun, particularly if both attackers are coming up from behind!

Do you...do you think that criminals face their victims eye-to-eye?

It's like...what good is your fucking gun if it's stored under your bed and you're in a completely different room when someone breaks in? So what good is it then? No good. In fact, it just becomes another thing the criminal will steal.

And we already know that most criminals use stolen weapons.

 

[LV426]

Should I, as an older, but not fat, man rely on hand to hand combat against two or more young people when they have knives? or guns? why do you believe that I, or anyone else, as decent law abiding people must rely on lesser means for our protection?

What good is your gun if someone sneaks up on you from behind?

What good is your gun if someone smacks you on the back of your head with a pipe?

What good is your gun if someone stabs you in the back?

What good is your gun if you are in a completely different room than the gun if someone breaks in?

All those scenarios result in the criminal getting the gun away from the victim because of...the element of surprise.

Not many criminals are going to give you a heads up that they're gonna try to attack you.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Because it is so miniscule, it doesn't even fall within a margin of error.

The number of people killed by criminals with guns is nothing compared to the number of people who kill themselves with guns.

Because it is so miniscule, it doesn't even fall within a margin of error.

The number of people killed by criminals with guns is nothing compared to the number of people who kill themselves with guns.

Most gun deaths are suicides. Banning guns won't stop suicides. There's still bridges, buildings, gas stoves and having a head-on with a cement truck.

This doesn't break out the domestic murders from muggers, gang violence and other criminal actions:
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/

 

[LV426]

Because they are the most effective tools for self defense.

No they aren't! They're not effective if someone chokes you from behind.

They're not effective if someone uses the element of surprise on you.

In fact, all you do when you carry your gun around is advertise to criminals that you have a gun they can steal:

 

[LV426]

you are delusional. stop ignoring the reality of inner city crime.

How many people were killed by criminals with guns last year?

How many people killed themselves with guns last year?

And you don't live in a city, so you don't know SHIT about what happens in them.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

There exist an ocean of research indicating mental illness is not a leading cause of gun violence, in fact, where it is is usually with suicide:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4211925/
https://namica.org/advocacy/crimina...e-truth-about-mental-health-and-gun-violence/
https://efsgv.org/learn/learn-more-about-gun-violence/mental-illness-and-gun-violence/
https://www.mhanational.org/gun-deaths-violence-and-mental-health
https://www.rand.org/research/gun-p...tal-illness-risk-factor-for-gun-violence.html
https://psychnews.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.pn.2021.7.23

No one can predict who the next shooter will be, focusing on the mentally ill hoping to prevent gun violence won’t lead to solving this problem, in fact, like “prayers and condolences,” it is a gun advocate deflection off of the real problem

They are using the legal definition.

Do you really think Payton Gendron murdering 10 people in a grocery store was rational behavior? That the only reason he did so was because the gun made him do it?

IMO, it's highly irrational behavior....and the gun isn't the primary reason. There's also the matter of suicides. A 90 year old man facing a painful cancer death? Sure, that could be a rational decision. A 15 year old kid being bullied on TikTok? Not so much.

 

[LV426]

your facts are wrong. not sure where you pulled them from.

I am not wrong.

The majority of gun deaths in this country are suicides:

Majority Of U.S. Gun Deaths Are Suicides, But A New Poll Suggests Few Americans Know It
https://wamu.org/story/19/10/02/the...ut-a-new-poll-suggests-few-americans-know-it/

The probability that you will die of a self-inflicted gunshot wound is literally zero if you don't have a gun.

 

[LV426]

Let's say you are 100% correct, LV. What do you win? Do you think lying about me convinces others your way is the only way?

Oh, so then you do support universal health care and M4A.

Otherwise, how do you deliver mental health care to every American?

 

[LV426]

Which do you prefer: the illusion of being correct or leaving behind a positive, lasting change, no matter how miniscule?

So in order for you to do the right thing, I have to be nicer to you?

 

[LV426]

Banning things is not the path to freedom

Neither is having to comply with anyone waving a gun around, or being forced to buy a gun because of other people waving guns around.

That is actual oppression.

 

[LV426]

It doesn't matter to me which side does it, it's still wrong.

So in your mind, all bans are evil?

 

[LV426]

You've already agreed most "gun violence" are suicides. How can a suicide be "killing tons of innocent people"?

They are killing themselves.

The majority of other gun deaths are domestic disputes where only the cops are innocent bystander

No, domestic disputes where the husband shoots the wife.

You're trying to bOTHsiDeS domestic violence.

Fucking sick.

At least 90% of domestic disputes involving a firearm are the husband shooting the wife and kids.

 

[Lionfish]

“ Three weeks and 39 mass shootings. This is America in 2023”

“There are about 393 million privately owned firearms in the US. That’s 120 guns for every 100 Americans. 45% of US adults say they live in a household with a gun, according to an October 2022 Gallup survey.“

“Firearm injuries are now the leading cause of death among people younger than 24 in the United States. From 2015 through 2020, there were at least 2,070 unintentional shootings by children under 18 in the US. Those shootings resulted in 765 deaths and 1,366 injuries.”
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/23/politics/mass-shootings-in-2023-what-matters/index.html

“Tragedy upon tragedy’: why 39 US mass shootings already this year is just the start”

“There are more guns in the US than people, according to a 2018 Small Arms Survey report, which found the country had the highest rate of firearm ownership in the world, and more than double the next country on the list, Yemen.”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...shootings-already-this-year-is-just-the-start

“2023 Off To Historically Fast Start For Mass Shootings”
https://www.forbes.com/sites/nichol...o-historically-fast-start-for-mass-shootings/

”More mass shootings than days of the year: The grim reality of gun violence in the US“.
https://www.firstpost.com/explainer...ifornia-death-toll-gun-violence-12034902.html

And the right keep telling us the solution is even guns are necessary

Poor anchovies,

Actually, the right is telling you to hunker down of move to Canada. No guns there.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

How many people were killed by criminals with guns last year?

How many people killed themselves with guns last year?

And you don't live in a city, so you don't know SHIT about what happens in them.

44
You and I agree most "gun violence" are suicides. We remain disagreed on whether suicides and murders are rational acts or not.

Of the murders, 634 of them were women shot by intimidate partners in 2020 (another 444 were murdered by "other means", presumably strangulation or beating to death). The linked FBI table lists 10,258 total firearm homicides (total 13,927 homicides).

Of the other murders, odds strongly favor same-race murderers and victims. About 5 out of 6 for whites and a 9 out of 10 for blacks so all the White Supremacists and Pedo Nazis should get a grip.


https://everytownresearch.org/repor...ely-lethal-intimate-partner-violence-problem/

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....f_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls

 

[LV426]

Banning guns won't stop suicides.

It won't stop all suicides, but it will stop many because guns, unlike other means, have the highest "success" rate when it comes to suicide.

Drug overdoses and self-hanging aren't nearly as successful as attempts with a gun.

So it won't stop all suicides, but it will stop most of the gun suicides.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Neither is having to comply with anyone waving a gun around, or being forced to buy a gun because of other people waving guns around.

That is actual oppression.

Waving guns around is against the law, dear. It's called brandishing.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/st...shed-guns-protesters-plead-guilty-2021-06-17/
St. Louis couple who brandished guns at protesters plead guilty

On Thursday, Mark McCloskey pleaded guilty to one count of misdemeanor fourth-degree assault. His wife pleaded guilty to second-degree harassment, also a misdemeanor, online court records showed.

Mark McCloskey was ordered to pay a $750 fine while Patricia McCloskey was ordered to pay $2,000. They were also ordered to turn over the weapons used in the incident.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

It won't stop all suicides, but it will stop many because guns, unlike other means, have the highest "success" rate when it comes to suicide.

Drug overdoses and self-hanging aren't nearly as successful as attempts with a gun.

So it won't stop all suicides, but it will stop most of the gun suicides.

Maybe. You're willingly giving up an established freedom for the promise of security. That's a dark and silly path, LV.

 

[evince]

Dutch


The people don’t like having to worry about getting murdered everywhere they go


You will lose this fight

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Dutch


The people don’t like having to worry about getting murdered everywhere they go


You will lose this fight

Why don't they worry more about dying in an auto accident, since that's more likely to happen? An opiod overdose? Why do they fear guns when the odds are they're more likely to end up hash on the car accident? OD on pain pills?.....especially on JPP?

https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/all-injuries/preventable-death-overview/odds-of-dying/
Lifetime odds of death for selected causes, United States, 2020
Opioid overdose 1 in 67
Suicide 1 in 93
Motor-vehicle crash 1 in 101
Fall 1 in 102
Gun assault 1 in 221

 

[christiefan915]

Fentanyl is killing 100,000 young Americans each year. White libs don't give a fuck.

All the white lib nazi scum want to do is make it illegal for law abiding Black Americans to own guns.

Seventy-two percent of white Purdue pharma execs are responsible for the proliferation of fentanyl in the US.