“There have been nearly 70 mass shootings so far this year”

O.K., I’ll rephrase it just for you, “the operation of a gun” means nothing to the issue, anyone can quickly learn how to fire a gun, I, thank God, didn’t grow up in a gun culture, and I qualified on five weapons, sharpshooter on two and marksman on another

And in terms of laws, reality proves they are next to nonexistent, so have no clue how they are suppose to address forty thousand plus Americans being killed by guns every year


Poor anchovies

Enforce the fucking laws on the books right now. It's your buddy George Soros that has corrupted the state and local attorney general's office in most democrat run states and large cities. You lefites are so fucking dumb, who wipes your ass?
 
I don't negotiate with myself.

The thing is that I used to think that we could impose limitations, but then I read that over 300,000 guns are stolen every year, and for about 15% of the time, they're never reported as stolen.

So that convinced me to say "fuck you and fuck your guns, you fucking wimps".

Since you can't responsibly own them, NO ONE SHOULD.

It can't be changed.
It would require a constitutional amendment that would be, quite obviously, impossible to get in a polarized nation.
Don't waste your time saying why it should be done, because even if that's so, it can't be done.

Whether you like it or not, too many Americans want their guns,
and with that in mind,
you should probably quit complaining about it
before one of the crazies out there, of which there are apparently many,
caps you between the eyes.

You are an annoying bastard or bitch, I don't know which,
but I don't want you to get shot--even though you're doing everything in your power to deserve it.

The rednecks want their guns, the law entitles them to have them, and you refuse to accept reality.

I'd suggest that you emigrate, but nobody, sad but true, is anxious to take in Americans.
Most people globally think that we suck. For one thing, most of us are armed!
 
Poor anchovies

Enforce the fucking laws on the books right now. It's your buddy George Soros that has corrupted the state and local attorney general's office in most democrat run states and large cities. You lefites are so fucking dumb, who wipes your ass?


Talk about being ignorant of gun laws, ah, little reality for you “copy,” the “fucking laws on the books are a joke,” and whoever, and it ain’t the bogeyman Soros, who “corrupted” Blue states should be congratulated given those gun restricted States have a lower gun violence and homicide rates than the gun free States
 
It can't be changed.
It would require a constitutional amendment that would be, quite obviously, impossible to get in a polarized nation.
Don't waste your time saying why it should be done, because even if that's so, it can't be done.

Whether you like it or not, too many Americans want their guns,
and with that in mind,
you should probably quit complaining about it
before one of the crazies out there, of which there are apparently many,
caps you between the eyes.

You are an annoying bastard or bitch, I don't know which,
but I don't want you to get shot--even though you're doing everything in your power to deserve it.

The rednecks want their guns, the law entitles them to have them, and you refuse to accept reality.

I'd suggest that you emigrate, but nobody, sad but true, is anxious to take in Americans.
Most people globally think that we suck. For one thing, most of us are armed!

Again, no it wouldn’t, as has been explained, no Constitutional right is absolute, zero, they all have been, and are, regulated
 
“Mass shootings have averaged more than one per day in 2023. Not a single week has passed without at least seven mass shootings.”

“There have already been 67 mass shootings in 2023 in the United States, more than any other year when compared with the same period. Less than two months into 2023, mass shootings have already killed 104 people and injured 269 this year in America.“

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/01/24/mass-shootings-us/

For many it appears a deep-rooted cultural phenomenon that to own a gun is somehow indicative of being free.

And the the price of this freedom is children, teachers, dancers, nursery workers, office workers, religious congregants, moviegoers, manicurists, masseuses, grocery shoppers, grocery checkers, and innocent bystanders continue to be mowed down

Given that the massacre of four and five year old kids by a semiautomatic weapon didn’t motivate the right it seems as if the only thing that will bring change is when they see the their own idiocy as a threat. Reagan banned semiautomatic weapons in California when he saw the Black Panthers openly carrying them in public so something similar will have to occur

If we now accept gang shootings as mass shootings, then sure, we probably have that many. Of course that destroys the leftist talking point of white people being prevalent mass shooters.
 
All that is apparent from this thread is the following:

1) "70" Mass shootings and not even 70 people dead.
2) Most of those shooting were by someone confused on the left.
3) Those on the left need to learn how to shoot.
4) Prove me wrong.
 
Again, no it wouldn’t, as has been explained, no Constitutional right is absolute, zero, they all have been, and are, regulated

Are you trying to identify yourself as another person who refuses to face reality?

Many Americans want to own firearms. I don't know why. That's above my pay grade.

A government of the people is supposed to give the people what they what, not what's good for them.

Nobody is forcing you to go on a healthy diet, either.
 
Except that is only an idea that is less than 20 years old...for the prior 250+ years, that wasn't the case.

That's.... absurdly false.
The position that the Second Amendment guarantees a right of individual Americans to own and carry (private ownership), was embraced by every known legal scholar in the 19th century who wrote about the Second Amendment (although several wrote about its limitations, all considered it an individual right), and is the consensus of most modern legal scholarship. Any claim to the contrary is pure historical revisionism.

To start, St. George Tucker, a judge and law professor from Virginia, published an edition of Blackstone's Commentaries, in 1803, to which he added explanations of how it related to American law, including the new Constitution. Soon after Tucker's Blackstone became nearly universally regarded as being the leading American authority on both Blackstone and American law.

Tucker addressed the Second Amendment at several points, clearly stating that it protected the individual, natural right of self-defense. After quoting the amendment he wrote:
"This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty... The right of self defense is the first law of nature; in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction."

Moreover, in his notes concerning Blackstone's description of the individual's right to have and use arms for self-defense, Tucker applauded the Second Amendment's "right of the people" for being "without any qualification as to their condition or degree, as is the case in the British government." In everything that Tucker wrote he explained that the right belonged to the individuals and not to some collective state right.

William Rawle of Pennsylvania, who had turned down an offer by George Washington to be the nation's first Attorney General, published his View of the Constitution of the United States of America in 1825 with a second edition printed in 1829. In it, especially in the second edition, he made it clear that the right to keep and bear arms belonged to the ordinary citizen, writing that

"No clause in the Constitution could by any rule of construction be conceived to give to congress a power to disarm the people."

This same view can again be seen in the highly influential 1833 Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States by Supreme Court Justice and law professor Joseph Story, as well as in his later Familiar Exposition of the Constitution. By paraphrasing the "right of the people" as the "right of the citizens" -- not of States or members of a militia -- Story left no doubt that he meant the right to belong to individuals. He unequivocally stated that
"the right of the citizens to keep, and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic."

Story was even more direct in his Familiar Exposition when he wrote:

"One of the ordinary modes, by which tyrants accomplish their purposes without resistance, is by disarming the people and making it an offense to keep arms."

Though less prominent than his father Henry Tucker (son of St. George) shared the view of the Second Amendment as securing an individual right. In an 1831 commentary he exclaimed:

"The right of bearing arms ... is practically enjoyed by every citizen, and is among his most valuable privileges."

And this view was the one expressed after the Civil War as well (Woods 1886, Black 1895) as well as in how the Freeman Bureau Act of 1866, referred to the rights of the people included

"the constitutional right to bear arms, shall be secured to and enjoyed by all the citizens of such State or district without respect to race or color, or previous conditions of slavery."

They emphasized how such rights should be preserved from attempts at government encroachment, indicating that they didn't see the Second Amendment as the state's right to maintain their own armed military.

To contradict all of this the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence (CPHV) is forced to claim that "Colonial legislatures from New Hampshire to South Carolina imposed communal storage of firearms and permitted them to be removed only in times of crisis or for muster day." But in reality the only indication of community or compulsory storage in Colonial times was for arms and ammunition that was purchased by state or local legislatures, or supplied by the King. Throughout the colonial period it was the private ownership of guns that was compulsory or encouraged. When the British tried to take the local stock of powder, shot and arms at Concord the local "Minute Men" already had their own firearms and ammo in their homes.

So, as an examination of the writings of the Founding Fathers[1], any pre-1900 case or commentary shows that none of them thought of the Second Amendment was established to preserve a collective right or right of the states. IOW, while the Second Amendment was meant to preserve and guarantee an individual right for a collective purpose that does not in any way suddenly somehow transform that right into a collective right. There is no contrary evidence from the writings of the Founding Fathers, early American legal commentators, or pre-20th century Supreme Court decisions, indicating that the Second Amendment was intended to apply solely to members of well-regulated militias. The "collective right only" theory is exclusively an invention of the 20th century "gun control" debate.

Now, in our time, in his 400-page The Bill of Rights: Creation & Reconstruction, Akhil Reed Amar (a leading Constitutional scholar and Sterling Professor of Law and Political Science at Yale University) discusses the idea that the 2nd Amendment establishes state militias and doesn't support the individual's right to bear arms. Amar, a self-described liberal, states unequivocally that
"this reading does not work ... The ultimate right to keep and bear arms belongs to 'the people,' not the states. As the language of the tenth Amendment shows, these two are of course not identical: when the Constitution means 'state' it says so. Thus, as noted above, 'the people' at the core of the Second Amendment are the same people at the heart of the Preamble and the First Amendment."
Harvard Law professor Laurence Tribe, often mentioned as being on a short list of possible Supreme Court picks by a Democratic President, stated back in 1999 that individual Americans did indeed have a right to keep and bear arms noting that he studied the issue thoroughly and found that the Constitution did indeed ensure to each American the right to "possess and use firearms in defense of themselves and their homes." Some believe it was this stance that kept him from ever being nominated.

The fact is that the nation's leading constitutional scholars such as Tribe and Amar as well as folks like William Van Alstyne (Duke), Sanford Levinson (University of Texas) and Glenn Harlan Reynolds (University of Tennessee), all ascribe to the concept of the individual Second Amendment right as the "Standard Model." As the afore-mentioned Glenn Reynolds notes, scholars that adhere to the individual rights interpretation, "dominate the academic literature on the Second Amendment almost completely," and that this view is "the mainstream scholarly interpretation."

Liberal Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz agrees with his colleagues but for different reasons:

"Those who are trying to read the Second Amendment out of the Constitution by claiming it's not an individual right are courting disaster by encouraging others to use the same means to eliminate portions of the Constitution they don't like."

And when the U.S. Supreme Court overturned the 32 year long ban on handguns in Washington D.C., in June 2008 (District of Columbia v. Heller) in a 5-4 decision. It was "an inevitable ruling," explained George Washington University Law Professor Jonathan Turley
"Even though I'm an advocate of gun control, it's very hard to read the Second Amendment and not see an individual right."

Finally, the fact is that the Founding Fathers loathed the concept of a standing army in the control of the federal government. They considered it a threat to freedom.

For instant during the Constitutional Convention back in 1787 James Madison, long considered the "Father of the Constitution," warned against the dangers of a permanent army stating that, "A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty." He added that, "Throughout all Europe, the armies kept up under the pretext of defending, have enslaved the people."

Madison's Vice President, Elbridge Gerry (one of only three attendees to the Constitutional convention who refused to sign the U. S. Constitution because it did not then include a Bill of Rights) described standing armies as "the bane of liberty" and that the purpose of state militias was to make them unnecessary.

Alexander Hamilton, in Federalist Paper no. 8 described a standing army as being an institution that was "unfriendly to liberty."

Samuel Adams wrote in 1776 that a standing army was, "always dangerous to the Liberties of the People." He argued that professional soldiers were likely to consider themselves separate from the populace, to become more attached to their officers than their government, and to be conditioned to obey commands unthinkingly[2].

The fact of the matter is that standing armies terrified them. Thomas Jefferson called them "engines of tyranny" and considered them to be "dangerous to our liberties."

These men were influenced not only by their experiences with the British army who many of them saw as being comprised of ruffians and drunken thugs and thus predisposed toward a citizen army, but also by the writings of folks like the Scottish writer Thomas Gordon who wrote under the pseudonym "Cato" in the 1720s and was an adamant opponent of standing armies, viewing them as a key method of undermining ancient English liberties as can be seen his Discourse of 1722:

"There are but two Ways in Nature to enslave a People, and continue that Slavery over them; the first is Superstition, and the last is Force: By the one, we are perswaded that it is our Duty to be undone; and the other undoes us whether we will or no. I take it, that we are pretty much out of Danger of the first, at present; and, I think, we cannot be too much upon our guard against the other; for, tho' we have nothing to fear from the best Prince in the World, yet we have every thing to fear from those who would give him a Power inconsistent with Liberty, and with a Constitution which has lasted almost a Thousand Years without such a Power..."

1. In the Federalist No. 29 Alexander Hamilton clearly and unambiguously states that membership in a well-regulated militia is not required for the right to keep arms.

2. Adams also said during the debates of the Massachusetts Convention on February 6, 1788
"and that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms"

And that's barely even going into the many quotes by other Founding Fathers.
 
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Talk about being ignorant of gun laws, ah, little reality for you “copy,” the “fucking laws on the books are a joke,” and whoever, and it ain’t the bogeyman Soros, who “corrupted” Blue states should be congratulated given those gun restricted States have a lower gun violence and homicide rates than the gun free States

Poor anchovies, are you calling the ATF, FBI, and dozens of soros appointed no bail DA's "jokes"?
 
Exactly.

Sandy Hook radicalized me into thinking that no one should own a gun.

Everything ammosexuals have been saying in defense of guns is covered in the blood of dead 6 year olds, which is why it's a position I wholly and heartily REJECT OUTRIGHT.

Fuck your guns. Fuck all of them.

You want self-defense? Take karate.

You want to hunt? Use a bow and arrow like they did for thousands of years.

You want to cover for your tiny dick? Buy a sportscar.

Okay then by your logic, the blood of those who weren't killed, after a gun owner stopped various mass shootings, would be on your gun control arguments.
 
this thread is a fine example of what leftists are pursuing.........a complete revision of history, going so far as to even ignore actual history, like it didn't exist except in the minds of conservatives.
 
Wait a minute, you now saying abortion is a constitutional right

All Constitutional rights are regulated, it is not a question of what degree they are regulated, but that they are Constitutionally regulated

And no one is prohibiting owning guns, nor confiscating guns, just making access to guns much more regulated

Not at all. Many people think it's a right, maybe even you, and they HATE any restriction on that "right"

I agree except it is a question of what degree they are regulated. That's exactly the issue. Unchecked regulation could render the right useless.

What do you want? Do you own a gun? Have you ever tried to purchase a gun?
 
It can't be changed.
It would require a constitutional amendment that would be, quite obviously, impossible to get in a polarized nation.
Don't waste your time saying why it should be done, because even if that's so, it can't be done.

Whether you like it or not, too many Americans want their guns,
and with that in mind,
you should probably quit complaining about it
before one of the crazies out there, of which there are apparently many,
caps you between the eyes.

You are an annoying bastard or bitch, I don't know which,
but I don't want you to get shot--even though you're doing everything in your power to deserve it.

The rednecks want their guns, the law entitles them to have them, and you refuse to accept reality.

I'd suggest that you emigrate, but nobody, sad but true, is anxious to take in Americans.
Most people globally think that we suck. For one thing, most of us are armed!

It is a fact that you put yourself at more danger and risk if you bring a gun into your home than not.

Your odds of dying by suicide skyrocket.

Your odds of dying by accidental discharge skyrocket.

Your odds of harming someone in your household (usually the woman) skyrocket.

Your odds of having your gun stolen skyrocket.

There is nothing in today's society that justifies gun ownership, but there's a lot that invalidates it.
 
It is a fact that you put yourself at more danger and risk if you bring a gun into your home than not.

Your odds of dying by suicide skyrocket.

Your odds of dying by accidental discharge skyrocket.

Your odds of harming someone in your household (usually the woman) skyrocket.

Your odds of having your gun stolen skyrocket.

There is nothing in today's society that justifies gun ownership, but there's a lot that invalidates it.

Even if all of that were true, and I admit a measure of skepticism, it doesn't matter.
A democracy is supposed to give people what they want, not what's good for them.
More Americans want guns than don't--that's why we have a 2nd Amendment-- and that appears to be a reality that you can't tolerate.
 
OK, so you're a zealot then.

You don't address the rest of the quote--the part about what you want being more important that what's good for you in a democracy..

I'm not a zealot. The government can confiscate all nine of my guns if they pay me adequately for them. I haven't shot them in years.


But I'm curious. Firearms are inanimate objects. Why are you so psychotically afraid of them? They're nothing for a grown adult with a modicum of sanity to be afraid of.

Be afraid of deficient people instead. THAT'S what we have in excess, and that's what's been fucking up the country.

First, try not be one yourself, and then, advocate for the purge of deficient people. That's the intelligent position, not banning constitutionally approved firearms.
 
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You don't address the rest of the quote--the part about what you want being more important that what's good for you in a democracy..

I'm not a zealot. The government can confiscate all nine of my guns if they pay me adequately for them. I haven't shot them in years.

Dude...you said that despite all facts and evidence, you're going to still believe what you want to believe.

That is zealotry.
 
Dude...you said that despite all facts and evidence, you're going to still believe what you want to believe.

That is zealotry.

I'm not saying that at all.

Let's believe all the evidence if it's true, but then address whether you want the government to let you have what you want.
The evidence then becomes irrelevant. What's good for us doesn't matter if its not what we want.

It's not like the refusing of vaccinations, which imperils other people. My having guns doesn't imperil anybody.
I haven't ever pointed one at a person, on this continent, at least, or even a living creature.
 
Let's believe all the evidence if it's true, but then address whether you want the government to let you have what you want.

When you start talking in terms of want and not need, you end up sounding petulant.


The evidence then becomes irrelevant. What's good for us doesn't matter if its not what we want.

So that's called dissonance, and it's not something many democracies survive.


It's not like the refusing of vaccinations, which imperils other people. My having guns doesn't imperil anybody.

Yes it does if those guns get lost, stolen, or otherwise illegally transferred. Which happens all the time, at least 300,000 times every year.

So while you may not have ever lost your gun YET, that doesn't guarantee you never will.

Every single gun that is used in a crime was first legally purchased and then the gun somehow found its way into the hands of someone intending to do harm.

The leading supplier of guns to criminals...are gun owners.

So you buy a gun to protect your home and car from criminals armed with guns they stole from homes and cars.
 
When you start talking in terms of want and not need, you end up sounding petulant.




So that's called dissonance, and it's not something many democracies survive.




Yes it does if those guns get lost, stolen, or otherwise illegally transferred. Which happens all the time, at least 300,000 times every year.

So while you may not have ever lost your gun YET, that doesn't guarantee you never will.

Every single gun that is used in a crime was first legally purchased and then the gun somehow found its way into the hands of someone intending to do harm.

The leading supplier of guns to criminals...are gun owners. And it's not even close.

But you clearly are very afraid of them, and that's not logical. Guns are inanimate objects.
While the para-military ones are ugly as shit, sporting arms can be objects of art.

Your fear should be of deficient people. We need a draconian purge of assholes, not a ban of inanimate objects.
Banning sporting arms is no different than banning golf clubs or tennis racquets or bowling balls--to a logical person.
You just have an irrational fear for some reason.
 
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