There are 120 guns for every 100 Americans

1. There's hope for you yet.

2. I have no idea WTF that means.

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Oom's favorite things--silicone boobs, assault weapons, and meaningless slogans. The Trifecta!

Those fun bags look interesting under the halter, but up close and personal, the little perky ones are cutest.
I DO know about these things, although I'm obviously going on memory.
 
Oom's favorite things--silicone boobs, assault weapons, and meaningless slogans. The Trifecta!

Those fun bags look interesting under the halter, but up close and personal, the little perky ones are cutest.
I DO know about these things, although I'm obviously going on memory.

It got your attention. LOL
 
Seriously? You think banning abortion, gay marriage or anything else "for the good of society" is a good path for us?

Strange non-sequitur. Obviously, banning abortion and gay marriage would be bad for society.

IMO, our nation should focus on mental illness and preventive medicine for the mind.

OK. However, it's not clear how many lives that would save. When you compare us to peer nations you'll find that non-firearm homicides here are about three times as common, but that total homicides are about nine times as common. That suggests that about 1/3 of the problem is things like culture and poor mental health treatment, while 2/3 is guns.

FWIW, I always love the atomic bomb argument

There's always apoplectic sputtering among gun enthusiasts when one brings it up, since it's such an obvious problem with trying to interpret the "right to bear arms" as an absolute right that cannot be infringed. Deep down pretty much everyone agrees that the government can and should decide which arms people get to bear. We just disagree about the details of which it should be banning. That's an uncomfortable point for the gun enthusiasts to grapple with, so they'd rather just throw their hands up in indigitation and incredulity when the point is made, and pretend that somehow erases the point. But it doesn't. The fact remains nearly all of us support drawing a line SOMEWHERE, in the spectrum of escalating arms. And that tears away the absolutist pretensions of the gun nuts and focuses the debate on more practical considerations of cost/benefit analysis for any proposed dividing line.

There are 130,930 public and private K-12 schools in the U.S., according to 2017-18 data from the National Center for Education Statistics (NCES). Here’s how they break down:

All: 130,930
Elementary schools: 87,498
Secondary schools: 26,727
Combined schools: 15,804
Other: 901


My analysis of cost-per-life-saved from paying for enhanced school security actually UNDERSELLS my point. I used 130,930 as the number of schools when calculating costs of security, yet when calculating school shooting averages, I used a figure that includes university shootings like the big one at Virginia Tech. So, that error would give us a "cost per life saved" that's too low. In reality, I should have subtracted out the college shootings, which would give us even fewer "lives saved" for the cost.

My point also undersells costs in that the 130,930 figure is the number of institutions, rather than buildings, and if you were to try to solve this with guards and security doors, etc., buildings are really the more relevant consideration. For example, one local high school I know effectively has two "campuses" -- one is the main building, and the other is a vocational education building, physically separated by some distance to reduce the distraction from noisy heavy machinery running. Schools with multiple large buildings are common, and some schools have a hell of a lot more than just two buildings, too. Like this one looks like it has about 17 buildings of significant size:

https://www.exeter.edu/about-us/our...y is located,placed prominently at the center.

One guard isn't going to cut it, there. So, any solution based around physical security of that sort is either going to have a MUCH higher per-school cost, or will cover a lot less than 100% of school buildings (and thus have no chance of getting rid of all or even most school shootings). So, either way, that greatly drives up the cost-per-life-saved. A more realistic figure might be about $1 billion per life saved -- in the context of countless other ways to spend our money that would save more like one life for every $10 million. It's horrendously inefficient.
 
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Strange non-sequitur. Obviously, banning abortion and gay marriage would be bad for society.

OK. However, it's not clear how many lives that would save. When you compare us to peer nations you'll find that non-firearm homicides here are about three times as common, but that total homicides are about nine times as common. That suggests that about 1/3 of the problem is things like culture and poor mental health treatment, while 2/3 is guns......
Not a non sequitur when you consider Gerald Ford's quote; once you give the Federal government enough power to overturn the Constitution, you have given them absolute power.

“A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have.”

Agreed on the problem of public safety; how do you determine how many lives are saved versus the cost of maintaining the safety system. However, that's not my main concern. My main concern is how much freedom are We, the People willing to give up to live in the basement of a parental Federal government taking care of us from cradle to grave.

You advocate empowering the Federal government to to dictate our rights to us. I disagree with that idea.
 
Oom's favorite things--silicone boobs, assault weapons, and meaningless slogans. The Trifecta!

Those fun bags look interesting under the halter, but up close and personal, the little perky ones are cutest.
I DO know about these things, although I'm obviously going on memory.

America's fascination with military weapons is gross. We're getting them off the streets. Fuck you, Republicans, gun lobby, and rednecks with small penises.

We're getting the guns.
 
Strange non-sequitur. Obviously, banning abortion and gay marriage would be bad for society.



OK. However, it's not clear how many lives that would save. When you compare us to peer nations you'll find that non-firearm homicides here are about three times as common, but that total homicides are about nine times as common. That suggests that about 1/3 of the problem is things like culture and poor mental health treatment, while 2/3 is guns.



There's always apoplectic sputtering among gun enthusiasts when one brings it up, since it's such an obvious problem with trying to interpret the "right to bear arms" as an absolute right that cannot be infringed. Deep down pretty much everyone agrees that the government can and should decide which arms people get to bear. We just disagree about the details of which it should be banning. That's an uncomfortable point for the gun enthusiasts to grapple with, so they'd rather just throw their hands up in indigitation and incredulity when the point is made, and pretend that somehow erases the point. But it doesn't. The fact remains nearly all of us support drawing a line SOMEWHERE, in the spectrum of escalating arms. And that tears aware the absolutist pretensions of the gun nuts and focuses the debate on more practical considerations of cost/benefit analysis for any proposed dividing line.



My analysis of cost-per-life-saved from paying for enhanced school security actually UNDERSELLS my point. I used 130,930 as the number of schools when calculating costs of security, yet when calculating school shooting averages, I used a figure that includes university shootings like the big one at Virginia Tech. So, that error would give us a "cost per life saved" that's too low. In reality, I should have subtracted out the college shootings, which would give us even fewer "lives saved" for the cost.

My point also undersells costs in that the 130,930 figure is the number of institutions, rather than buildings, and if you were to try to solve this with guards and security doors, etc., buildings are really the more relevant consideration. For example, one local high school I know effectively has two "campuses" -- one is the main building, and the other is a vocational education building, physically separated by some distance to reduce the distraction from noisy heavy machinery running. Schools with multiple large buildings are common, and some schools have a hell of a lot more than just two buildings, too. Like this one looks like it has about 17 buildings of significant size:

https://www.exeter.edu/about-us/our...y is located,placed prominently at the center.

One guard isn't going to cut it, there. So, any solution based around physical security of that sort is either going to have a MUCH higher per-school cost, or will cover a lot less than 100% of school buildings (and thus have no chance of getting rid of all or even most school shootings). So, either way, that greatly drives up the cost-per-life-saved. A more realistic figure might be about $1 billion per life saved -- in the context of countless other ways to spend our money that would save more like one life for every $10 million. It's horrendously inefficient.

We just need to keep telling them the problem is THE GUNS until is sinks in with the Rednecks.
 
It's the guns and nothing but the guns. Mass shootings only exist here, and military weapons only exist here so the answer:

Its the guns!
 
I support the 2nd amendment, and the right to own a gun.

But there is something wrong w/ America. Gun ownership has a near-religious devotion among some segments of the population. We hear "God, guns & gays" from voters in some regions, and for many, it is the top voting issue. Every small regulation or background check is a "slippery slope." The NRA refuses to postpone or move a large event that is taking place within days of a devastating shooting in a nearby location.

Like Trump support, it's a bit of a cult, and always a battle for those who are believers. The government is just an entity that wants to "grab their guns."

We're unique in the world in this respect. The 2nd country on the list has half the guns per capita that America does.

We're a gun nation.
Guns are cool, and often times the great equalizer. 120 for every 100 is just an excuse to fuel the gun grabbers' crusade.
 
We just need to keep telling them the problem is THE GUNS until is sinks in with the Rednecks.

The Blind leading the Blind. Guns are paperweights until a human being picks it up and uses it just like they use automobiles, airplanes, knives and baseball bats.

No guns involved here:

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Not a non sequitur when you consider Gerald Ford's quote; once you give the Federal government enough power to overturn the Constitution, you have given them absolute power.

“A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have.”

Agreed on the problem of public safety; how do you determine how many lives are saved versus the cost of maintaining the safety system. However, that's not my main concern. My main concern is how much freedom are We, the People willing to give up to live in the basement of a parental Federal government taking care of us from cradle to grave.

You advocate empowering the Federal government to to dictate our rights to us. I disagree with that idea.

Where I disagree with right-wingers is in the vast blind spot they tend to have when it comes to an infringement on liberty that ISN'T by the federal government. I recognize, for example, that my fundamental right to life can be taken from me by a private actor, like a crazed gunman. My freedoms can also be taken by state governments, such as when it comes to reproductive freedom.

I'm reminded of a line from Mark Twain, where he said to put all your eggs in one basket AND THEN WATCH THAT BASKET. I wouldn't go quite that far, but that's a concept worth considering when it comes to government. With the federal government, we tend to be in a better position to watch that basket, in order to defend our rights.

So, it's not that I advocate empowering the federal government to dictate our rights to us. It's that I advocate empowering the voters to use the federal government to secure their rights. Others want to disempower them, so that various other forces don't need to worry about the federal government when it comes time to seize rights. The pending abortion case is a great example, where the Supreme Court's arch conservatives have basically gutted a federal protection so that state governments can seize a woman's control over her own uterus.
 
The Blind leading the Blind. Guns are paperweights until a human being picks it up and uses it just like they use automobiles, airplanes, knives and baseball bats.

No guns involved here:

rjgUZM.gif

And how many deaths there? And from guns? In 2020, 45,222 Americans died from gun injuries. It's roughly the same year in and year out. With 9/11, it was 2,977 killed 21 years ago. We're talking hundreds and hundreds of times more of a death toll from guns than from terrorist attacks in the US.
 
There was never a Federal Protection in the Constitution for the right to murder an unborn child.

The Supreme Court will educate these recent high schools graduates in a few days.
 
“We hold that Roe and Casey must be overruled,” he writes in the document, labeled as the “Opinion of the Court.” “It is time to heed the Constitution and return the issue of abortion to the people’s elected representatives.”
 
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