The biggest flawed argument I've ever heard?
The vast majority of gun owners in this country are law-abiding citizens
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The biggest flawed argument I've ever heard?
Canceled.2014.1
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There are a couple of issues that I would raise with the article Howey copied from.
First of all, the basis of it is "In 2008, 2,947 children and teens died from guns in the United States and 2,793 died in 2009 for a total of 5,740—one child or teen every three hours, eight every day, 55 every week for two years. In The 5,740 children and teens killed by guns in 2008 and 2009"
Now the way that sentence is written makes a great emotional plea to save our children. Except it neglects to say that this same age group has quite a few "teens" serving in the military. They also vote, drive and generally act like adults. The statistics for the "teen" age group killed by gunfire are heavily populated by the upper end, namely 17-19 years of age.
Second of all, this sort of study does not take into account whether the guns were legal or even whether the gunfire that killed the teen was from law enforcement. When you say "The leading cause of death among Black teens ages 15 to 19 in 2008 and 2009 was gun
homicide." sounds horrific, and it is. But the overwhelming majority of those deaths were from gang-related incidents or by law enforcement. Gun control would have little or no effect on those numbers.
Third of all, when you include suicide rates in these numbers you slant them towards a certain side. There has never been any reasonable study that I have seen (please link if there is one) the inavailability of guns to effect the suicide rates. If a teen makes teh decision to thake their own life, they will find a way to do it.
And lastly, I would like to see the source documentation for the comment "And the U.S. gun homicide rate for teens and young adults 15 to 24 was 42.7 times higher than the combined gun homicide rate for that same age group in the other countries". Because, as of Sept 2008, 4,432 "kids" in that age bracket have died serving in the US Military in Afganistant and Iraq. Were they included in these numbers?
First of all, the basis of it is "In 2008, 2,947 children and teens died from guns in the United States and 2,793 died in 2009 for a total of 5,740—one child or teen every three hours, eight every day, 55 every week for two years. In The 5,740 children and teens killed by guns in 2008 and 2009"
Now the way that sentence is written makes a great emotional plea to save our children. Except it neglects to say that this same age group has quite a few "teens" serving in the military. They also vote, drive and generally act like adults. The statistics for the "teen" age group killed by gunfire are heavily populated by the upper end, namely 17-19 years of age.
Second of all, this sort of study does not take into account whether the guns were legal or even whether the gunfire that killed the teen was from law enforcement. When you say "The leading cause of death among Black teens ages 15 to 19 in 2008 and 2009 was gun
homicide." sounds horrific, and it is. But the overwhelming majority of those deaths were from gang-related incidents or by law enforcement. Gun control would have little or no effect on those numbers.
Third of all, when you include suicide rates in these numbers you slant them towards a certain side. There has never been any reasonable study that I have seen (please link if there is one) the inavailability of guns to effect the suicide rates. If a teen makes teh decision to thake their own life, they will find a way to do it.
And lastly, I would like to see the source documentation for the comment "And the U.S. gun homicide rate for teens and young adults 15 to 24 was 42.7 times higher than the combined gun homicide rate for that same age group in the other countries". Because, as of Sept 2008, 4,432 "kids" in that age bracket have died serving in the US Military in Afganistant and Iraq. Were they included in these numbers?
Canceled.2014.1
New member
Utter sensationalistic bullshit. When you make blanket statements like that using such broad generalities, you show both ignorance and a willingness to lie in order to win an argument.
I could take you to 25 or more homes right now and you would be unable to find a gun that was not properly secured. And that is only the people who I know shoot and I have been in their homes and seen the way they store their firearms. So save us the bullshit statements like "There is no such thing as a responsible gun owner. Period.". There are over 60 million of us, and you talk like you know us all.
Spare me.
Are you a gun nut, Bravo?
Are you using abortion to justify your gun rights?
I wouldn't describe myself as one, no....and gun rights are a guarenteed Constitutional right.....
but one line in your diatribe stood out in my mind....'
By any standards of human and moral decency, children in America are under assault....
I thought that very pertinent ...standards of human and moral decency.....and abortion just seems like an obvious conflict of reason....
Your 3000 deaths could be from dozens of reasons.....1.4 million deaths on purpose, mostly for vanity seems ludicrous....
Canceled.2014.1
New member
Indeed there are. But what amazes me is if it read:
3 year old kills himself with after consuming chemicals left in car by father[/I]
Daughter of responsible gun owner, another police officer, commits suicide with father's medication
You wouldn't be calling for bans on chemicals and medications.
Welcome.
You want to qualify this by numbers? While I agree with you about the unnecessary deaths in two unnecessary wars, this isn't about this and those numbers weren't included.
What number of young deaths per year by guns is acceptable? 500? 5000? 10000? What's the magic number?????
How about NONE!
There are 100,000,000 gun owners in the US and you conclude your bullshit from ONE accident.
Howey is so narrow-minded, things just occur to him in other scenarios....its typical pinheaded logic
How many auto accident deaths are acceptable ?
How many swimming accident deaths are acceptable ?
How many drug realated deaths are acceptable ?
Getting the picture ?
Must I go on ?
Canceled.2014.1
New member
I think my post was far more accurate than the nonsense of "There is no such thing as a responsible gun owner. Period".
Your point's clear: it's an acceptable consequence of gun right freedom.
So quit sniveling about what happened in Colorado, then.
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typical bijou
get shot down on her wacko theories....run away
and then just engage with others with nothing but insults.
how intelligent bijou. is this the intelligence you want, because you claim to want intelligent debate? yet....i never see it from you. i see you RUN every time your points get countered and then you cry over your shoulder some lame insult.
stand up and back up your points.
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howey:
can you please address multiple posts separately? it is much easier to read that way. i will now go back and wade through your response.
thanks.
can you please address multiple posts separately? it is much easier to read that way. i will now go back and wade through your response.
thanks.
This post is pure bull crap of the stickiest sort.
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i think this is directed to me....
and i think the children comment is addressed to me.
1. complete and utter strawman. nothing i advocate takes away from protecting children.
2. i don't hate children. i believe in rights. and so do most children.
3. can you stay focused and not be so hysterical?
How many guns did Jesus own?