The need to reconsider the Electoral College (and it has nothing to do with Trump)

[NOVA]

First off let me say that I never thought that we should have gone into Iraq. But I also do not believe we were lied to. Every intelligence agency in the world believed that Iraq had restarted it's various weapons programs. They believed that because Saddam wanted them to believe it. He wanted his neighbors to fear that he might have them and would be willing to use them.

Second. While we waited for the order to go into Iraq I sat on the border and watched convoy after convoy go into Syria.

Anyone remember the talking heads who spoke about the possible mobile biological production trucks we found? But those same talking heads had an expert say they couldn't have been used for biological production because of the absence of an autoclave. Know what an autoclave does? It sterlizes equipment after use. It's essentially a high tech pressure cooker. If you aren't worried about secondary contamination after production you don't need an autoclave.

Fourth. Since we stepped foot into Iraq to present we have found in excess of a thousand chemical weapons. Many were left over from the Gulf War. Remember the ones he said he destroyed but couldn't prove were destroyed. And others had been produced at various times after the Gulf War.

Lastly. During our time there more than 4 million government documents were found. Many of which showed they did pay various groups who had proven they killed westerners. The program that was decoding and documenting those findings was defunded after Obama entered office when there were still around a million and a half documents left to decipher.


But still. Even given all this I don't think we should have gone into Iraq. That does not mean we were lied to.

"People can quarrel with whether we should have more troops in Afghanistan or internationalize Iraq or whatever, but it is incontestable that on the day I left office, there were unaccounted for stocks of biological and chemical weapons.”
Quote from Bill Clinton....speaking about Iraq

Democrats gonna deny Clinton's own words ???

 

[SmarterthanYou]

If necessary, yes.

fair enough

 

[blackascoal]

[FONT="]"People can quarrel with whether we should have more troops in Afghanistan or internationalize Iraq or whatever, but it is incontestable that on the day I left office, there were unaccounted for stocks of biological and chemical weapons.”
Quote from Bill Clinton....

Democrats gonna deny Clinton's own words ???[/FONT]

Clinton was wrong about Iraq .. both of them were wrong and both have paid for their ignorance on it.

Democrats don't try to make God's out of politicians.

 

[evince]

do you also hold the same belief about a revolution and watering the tree of liberty with blood every 20 years?

only if its the blood of traitors like the current republican party who cheats Americans out of their rights to vote so that republicans can manage to win elections


they cheat democracy and you support them

 

[NOVA]

Clinton was wrong about Iraq .. both of them were wrong and both have paid for their ignorance on it.

Democrats don't try to make God's out of politicians.

Then its time to face the facts about the Iraq war....
They may have been wrong but the accusation of lying is bullshit.....EVERYONE believed Iraq had WMD at the time, including the intelligence agency's.....
The democrats had been saying Sadam had WMD for at least 6 years BEFORE Bush ever came on the scene.....
thats historical FACT....

 

[archives]

no it couldn't.....

Matter of semantics, you can legally change what we now define as the Electoral College without going thru an Amendment process, first step would be the allocation of electors within a State thereby eliminating the winner take all method

 

[countryboy]

I don't give a fuck what you think country dude.

Yes, I know. That's why we have Trump as president. Because leftist loons like you "don't give a fuck" what country bumpkins like me think.

Like Jefferson, I believe the constitution should be reviewed, and when necessary, rewritten every 20 years or so.

Please quote Jefferson, in his own words, saying such.

How exactly do you "rewrite the Constitution? What mechanism, exactly? Please be specific.

Why should I give a damn about what a Trumpy like you thinks?

You shouldn't, and I hope you and your ilk continue to act like the entitled petulant children that you are.

 

[blackascoal]

Then its time to face the facts about the Iraq war....
They may have been wrong but the accusation of lying is bullshit.....EVERYONE believed Iraq had WMD at the time, including the intelligence agency's.....
The democrats had been saying Sadam had WMD for at least 6 years BEFORE Bush ever came on the scene.....
thats historical FACT....

Really, I have a FACT for you ..

CIA final report; No WMD found in Iraq
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/7634313/n...-final-report-no-wmd-found-iraq/#.WiV4nUqnGCo

AND, EVERYONE was NOT saying that Iraq had WMD. EVERYONE did not believe that bullshit.

Do you need quotes, or do you already know that everyone was not saying it?

 

[Thumper]

Clinton was wrong about Iraq .. both of them were wrong and both have paid for their ignorance on it.

Democrats don't try to make God's out of politicians.

I beg to differ. Seen it from dems as much as the right has.

And as we can see from my earlier post they did have Chem and likely bio weapons. Something no one here has actually addressed yet.

 

[NOVA]

Really, I have a FACT for you ..

CIA final report; No WMD found in Iraq
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/7634313/n...-final-report-no-wmd-found-iraq/#.WiV4nUqnGCo

AND, EVERYONE was NOT saying that Iraq had WMD. EVERYONE did not believe that bullshit.

Do you need quotes, or do you already know that everyone was not saying it?

Are you gonna play word games with me when you know perfectly well what I was saying.....
Every intell. agency....including the UK, France, Germany, Italy, etc....
Its obvious that every peon in the world is not what I meant....its not you to bullshit with parsing every word...

Hows that for clarification ?

 

[blackascoal]

Yes, I know. That's why we have Trump as president. Because leftist loons like you "don't give a fuck" what country bumpkins like me think.


Please quote Jefferson, in his own words, saying such.

How exactly do you "rewrite the Constitution? What mechanism, exactly? Please be specific.

You shouldn't, and I hope you and your ilk continue to act like the entitled petulant children that you are.

Ever had a history class dummy?

Letter to James Madison

Thomas Jefferson
Paris
September 06, 1789

http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/letter-to-james-madison-17/

“Each generation” should have the “solemn opportunity” to update the constitution “every nineteen or twenty years,” thus allowing it to “be handed on, with periodical repairs, from generation to generation, to the end of time.” -- Thomas Jefferson

Got anything else dummy?

 

[blackascoal]

Are you gonna play word games with me when you know perfectly well what I was saying.....
Every intell. agency....including the UK, France, Germany, Italy, etc....
Its obvious that every peon in the world is not what I meant....its not you to bullshit with parsing every word...

Hows that for clarification ?[/SIZE]

How about you clarify "EVERYBODY" .. which is patently FALSE .. and that includes intelligence agencies.

Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction
Did “Everyone” Agree?
https://www.americanprogress.org/is...hink-again-iraqi-weapons-of-mass-destruction/

Anything else you need clarified?

 

[evince]

like 70% of Americans believed the Bush lies

not all of us

 

[Thumper]

Really, I have a FACT for you ..

CIA final report; No WMD found in Iraq
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/7634313/n...-final-report-no-wmd-found-iraq/#.WiV4nUqnGCo

AND, EVERYONE was NOT saying that Iraq had WMD. EVERYONE did not believe that bullshit.

Do you need quotes, or do you already know that everyone was not saying it?

See. This is what happens when you don't actually read the news.

That report was from 05. It was written in early 04.

From 04 to 11 we found more than five thousand chemical weapons in Iraq.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ya...apons-found-in-iraq-nyt-report-135347507.html

The problem is because so much of his stuff was sent to Syria it can't be proven that anything we found was produced by him after the sanctions. But given it has been proven that we found the 500+ munitions that were unaccounted for by UN inspectors after the Gulf War. The ones he said were destroyed and the UN said were not. Coupled with the thousand and some odd convoys we saw go from Iraq into Syria and the biological production vehicles we found (with the absence of autoclaves like I said in my earlier post) it is understandable why every intelligence agency thought he had started his weapons programs up again.

But as a guy that isn't the type to get into other countries business I still say we shouldn't have gone there.

Oh yeah. I forgot to mention. I did Counter Proleferation for a time while I was in the Corps.

 

[Phantasmal]

See. This is what happens when you don't actually read the news.

That report was from 05. It was written in early 04.

From 04 to 11 we found more than five thousand chemical weapons in Iraq.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ya...apons-found-in-iraq-nyt-report-135347507.html

The problem is because so much of his stuff was sent to Syria it can't be proven that anything we found was produced by him after the sanctions. But given it has been proven that we found the 500+ munitions that were unaccounted for by UN inspectors after the Gulf War. The ones he said were destroyed and the UN said were not. Coupled with the thousand and some odd convoys we saw go from Iraq into Syria and the biological production vehicles we found (with the absence of autoclaves like I said in my earlier post) it is understandable why every intelligence agency thought he had started his weapons programs up again.

But as a guy that isn't the type to get into other countries business I still say we shouldn't have gone there.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/01/AR2009070104217.html

 

[TTQ64]

Ending the Electoral College could be done legally and without a constitutional amendment.

The racist right has lied and continues to lie about EVERYTHING.

Americans need to question EVERYTHING they do and say.

 

[countryboy]

Ever had a history class dummy?

Letter to James Madison

Thomas Jefferson
Paris
September 06, 1789

http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/letter-to-james-madison-17/

“Each generation” should have the “solemn opportunity” to update the constitution “every nineteen or twenty years,” thus allowing it to “be handed on, with periodical repairs, from generation to generation, to the end of time.” -- Thomas Jefferson

Got anything else dummy?

Where does it say "rewrite" in that supposed quote by Jefferson? You do realize Jefferson wasn't the only founding father, right? You realize that alleged sentiment of his wasn't incorporated into the Constitution, right? You see, the founders realized that even country bumpkins should have a voice, unlike leftist loons such as yourself, dummy.

Of course, you didn't even bother answering my question about how exactly we would go about "rewriting" the Constitution. Care to take a stab at it?

 

[NOVA]

How about you clarify "EVERYBODY" .. which is patently FALSE .. and that includes intelligence agencies.

Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction
Did “Everyone” Agree?
https://www.americanprogress.org/is...hink-again-iraqi-weapons-of-mass-destruction/

Anything else you need clarified?

Of course [FONT=&quot]disagreements existed in the intelligence community. thats the nature of intelligence....thats been the case since the creation of
intelligence agency's...theres never been a time that 100% agree on everything..in the end, it always comes down to the probability of their assessments.....

Bill Clinton's quote says it all.....he believed it, Bush believed it, and numerous others believed it....48 different country's joined the
coalition ..
Still playing your parsing games.....? You're getting as bad as Thingy and Christiefan....[/FONT]

 

[blackascoal]

See. This is what happens when you don't actually read the news.

That report was from 05. It was written in early 04.

From 04 to 11 we found more than five thousand chemical weapons in Iraq.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ya...apons-found-in-iraq-nyt-report-135347507.html

The problem is because so much of his stuff was sent to Syria it can't be proven that anything we found was produced by him after the sanctions. But given it has been proven that we found the 500+ munitions that were unaccounted for by UN inspectors after the Gulf War. The ones he said were destroyed and the UN said were not. Coupled with the thousand and some odd convoys we saw go from Iraq into Syria and the biological production vehicles we found (with the absence of autoclaves like I said in my earlier post) it is understandable why every intelligence agency thought he had started his weapons programs up again.

But as a guy that isn't the type to get into other countries business I still say we shouldn't have gone there.

Oh yeah. I forgot to mention. I did Counter Proleferation for a time while I was in the Corps.

No disrespect intended, but NO WMD was found in Iraq other than long ago useless chemical weapons that might make you sick if you drink them, but hardly qualified as weapons of mass destruction. Moving WMD is not like moving furniture, it leaves a chemical trail, and had there been massive movement of WMD, it would have been traced.

No disrespect to your service brother, but soldiers on the ground do not know, or are they told everything. My daughter is an E8 .. and believes the less she knows about the politics, they better she can do her job. Soldiers and politics are like oil and water.

 

[blackascoal]

Of course [FONT="]disagreements existed in the intelligence community. thats the nature of intelligence....thats been the case since the creation of
intelligence agency's...theres never been a time that 100% agree on everything..in the end, it always comes down to the probability of their assessments.....

Bill Clinton's quote says it all.....he believed it, Bush believed it, and numerous others believed it....48 different country's joined the
coalition ..
Still playing your parsing games.....? You're getting as bad as Thingy and Christiefan....[/FONT]

So you're blaming me for your misuse of words.

Everybody was not on board with the assessment that Iraq had WMD .. not by a long shot.

Can we now agree?