The nationalist case for supporting Israel

tsuke

New member
https://wordpress.com/post/tsukesthoughts.wordpress.com/1142

my-little-pony-brohoof-baby-tee-7.jpg

The Nationalist Case for Supporting Israel

The case is simple and can be summed up in one sentence. America should support Israel because they have a positive view of America and are longstanding Allies.

In the Israeli conflict we have two sides. The Palestinians who are at the very least affiliated with some jihadis who actively hate America and have no relations with us and Israel. In 2015 81% of Israelis viewed America positively and Israel has been an American ally for the longest time.

The rationale is simple. We want to encourage more countries to be longstanding allies and to view America favorably and we want to punish countries who don't so we can encourage the desired behavior from them. Does it mean that we should always blindly support our allies? Of course not. However the presumption of support must be given to our allies and that presumption must be stronger the longer the alliance lasts. For example if we had a new ally who was borderline in support towards us then a 60/40 case would be sufficient for us to consider the other side. For a longer ally like Britain or Israel a 70/30 or 80/20 case should be considered. In the case of Israel and Palestine, while both sides have valid arguments, they are close enough that our presumption should remain with Israel.

The counter argument is of course, would we not alienate more countries like Palestine in our quest to reward our allies? The answer is no. If we apply this consistently then nations will see there is a tangible benefit to becoming a long-term American ally and to popularize America with its population instead of demonizing it. For instance countries like the Philippines which love America should get much more foreign aid than Afghanistan or other Middle Eastern countries that hate it.

The reward MUST come after the change in behavior and not before. When you discipline a child do you reward him before he does the right thing? Or do you reward him after he gets good grades, does his homework, or a host of other things? The end result of this method of foreign policy should be an international community competing to who can be the best, most cooperative ally to be assured of US support. It is not a novel concept either. Supporting your allies and punishing your enemies have been around since ancient times. In fact the chinese have a saying "Do not trample over your old friends in your rush to make new".

At the end of the day the issue itself is only tangential to how our decision is to be made. Unless the case is absurdly one-sided, which it is not in this case, then we must stand with our allies so we can create new allies in the future.
 
At the end of the day the issue itself is only tangential to how our decision is to be made. Unless the case is absurdly one-sided, which it is not in this case, then we must stand with our allies so we can create new allies in the future.[/QUOTE]

I favor supporting Israel but that is really an absurd argument, as the previous poster implied, foreign affairs isn't the junior high playground
 
At the end of the day the issue itself is only tangential to how our decision is to be made. Unless the case is absurdly one-sided, which it is not in this case, then we must stand with our allies so we can create new allies in the future.

I favor supporting Israel but that is really an absurd argument, as the previous poster implied, foreign affairs isn't the junior high playground[/QUOTE]

we want to encourage other countries to support us and we want to discourage them from going against us.
 
Israel is our only real ally in the most troubled region of the world so US support should be a slam dunk no-brainer.
 
I favor supporting Israel but that is really an absurd argument, as the previous poster implied, foreign affairs isn't the junior high playground

we want to encourage other countries to support us and we want to discourage them from going against us.

For many years, Israel has been considered 'the biggest threat to world peace' by a variety of global polls.

Good luck with that. :0)
 
this is the "transactional "foreign policy, and while it has it's place we also do not want Israel to butcher Gaza.
Everyone has an interest in a 2 state solution ( except Bebe) in that it reduces tension and violence.
The US also uses power projection ( not to be confused with interventionism) to keep the players honest.

And China uses soft power to get what it wants. It's takes a mixture, there is no one way.
 
Netanyahu hurting Israel, say critics

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's domestic critics are coming out in force following passage of a United Nations Security Council resolution condemning Israeli settlements, and as the government fears further international moves to impose peace terms Israel opposes.

After initially condemning what most Israeli politicians considered a hostile attack at the UN, the opposition on Monday blamed Netanyahu for harming the country's standing and criticized his response to Resolution 2334.

"The prime minister was bragging about our foreign relations, and now what's underway is a total collapse of Israeli foreign policy," Yitzhak Herzog, co-chair of Israel's largest opposition party, said at the opening of the Zionist Union faction meeting Monday. He called on Yair Lapid, head of the opposition party Yesh Atid, and finance minister Moshe Kahlon, whose Kulanu party is part of the government, to join him and "stop Netanyahu before it's too late."

Israel summoned representatives from Security Council members Sunday and ordered its foreign ministry to reduce work ties with countries that voted for Resolution 2334, which demands that Israel cease construction in all areas it captured in the 1967 Middle East war and describes the West Bank and East Jerusalem as occupied Palestinian territory. A day earlier, Netanyahu recalled Israel's ambassadors from New Zealand and Senegal, two of the resolution's four co-sponsors, ended aid programs to Senegal and pledged to cut off 30 million shekels ($7.9 million) in Israeli funding to UN institutions.

"This is not policy, this is hysteria," Yesh Atid's Lapid said at a party meeting Monday. "We have enough haters who want to isolate us, there's no reason to isolate ourselves."

Israel's ambassador to Ukraine was summoned for a meeting Monday after a planned visit to Israel by the country's premier was cancelled after the UN vote.
http://www.guelphmercury.com/news-story/7037957-netanyahu-hurting-israel-say-critics/
 
Were those the same polls that predicted a Brexit loss and Hillary victory?

If you choose to believe they are .. then believe it.

I make no attempt to rationalize anything with the right-wing.

The good news is that this isn't about what you think .. it's what the world thinks.

Israelis know the world rejects them, even if you don't.
 
If you choose to believe they are .. then believe it.

I make no attempt to rationalize anything with the right-wing.

The good news is that this isn't about what you think .. it's what the world thinks.

Israelis know the world rejects them, even if you don't.

Oh, I'm sure they're quite aware of that.
 
The counter argument is of course, would we not alienate more countries like Palestine in our quest to reward our allies? The answer is no. If we apply this consistently then nations will see there is a tangible benefit to becoming a long-term American ally and to popularize America with its population instead of demonizing it. For instance countries like the Philippines which love America should get much more foreign aid than Afghanistan or other Middle Eastern countries that hate it.

This isn't even close to being the only counter argument. Sometimes politics isn't the only thing that matters. I don't like my country being associated with Israel for many reasons.
 
Alan Dershowitz: 'Appalling' Obama 'Stabbed Israel in Back' With UN Abstention



Senate Dems issuing statements against Obama regarding the U.N. vote:

Chuck Schumer (D-NY) Twitter
Extremely frustrating, disappointing & confounding that the Administration has failed to veto the UN resolution.
3:59 PM - 23 Dec 2016

*****

Bob Casey (D-PA) Twitter
I called on Admin to veto UN resolution on Israel. I am disappointed that the U.S. delegation did not use veto power on security council
2:44 PM - 23 Dec 2016

Resolutions like the one offered at the UN Security Council this week have the potential to move peace further from our reach.
2:46 PM - 23 Dec 2016

*****

Mark Warner (D-VA) Facebook
I am dismayed that the Administration departed from decades of U.S. policy by not vetoing the UN resolution regarding Israeli settlements. I continue to believe that a productive path toward peace requires direct negotiations between the Israelis and the Palestinians. Involvement at the UN, particularly via one-sided resolutions, is counterproductive to achieving a two-state solution.

*****

Joe Manchin (D-WV), Richard Blumenthal (D-VT), Chris Coons (D-DE), Ben Cardin (D-MD), Sherrod Brown (D-OH) and Ron Wyden (D-OR).
 
you get surveys like that because we reward nations for hating us.

I think it goes deeper. I think it's directly connected to our weakened influence. An influence weakened because of theoretical rhetoric that makes people like Obama feel smug and superior. Meanwhile the real world with their evil deviants engage in oppressing the weak.

Obama began his failed foreign policy from day one with his apology tour. Then his red line weakness during the Arab Spring showed the world the US no longer is a protector of freedom. The rise in terror attacks here and abroad all could see that a weak US leadership leaves people feeling afraid as they see global violence rise.
 
Back
Top