The lengths Trump supporters go to

hzfpvgick7gz.png


here we see the vp candiadte of the green party in action
 
ZappasGuitar said:
The secession documents from EVERY SINGLE SOUTHERN STATE made it crystal clear they were leaving the union to protect the institution of slavery.
Click to expand...


is that so?

post em

then show me proof that was the reason every southern soldier including lee decided to fight for the south

i'll wait
 
Cypress said:
btw, when and where did you Trumptards learn this new buzzword "virtue signaling". It's like you all started using it as the same time. Did some lonely, resentful, basement dwelling rightwing blogger think it up and you all began parroting him?

As for Russia, you have no skin in the game, and it didn't even occur to you to become Putin's submissive gimp until Trump started needing robust defense concerning his nexus with Russia. So I do not believe your alleged interest in the psychology and geopolics of Putin actually has anything to do at all with Putin. It is all about an emotional need to defend your hero, Donald J. Drumpf.

I actually have skin in the game regarding Russia, and I have spent a lifetime hoping that liberals and liberal reformers prevail in Russia, and that Russian can achieve a measure of liberal democracy, while still holding onto the traditionalist and conservative cultural influences that make them Russian.
Click to expand...

as an American taxpayer and someone who wants a bettering of relations for peace's sake
I have skin in the game.
What the Russian government is made up of is NOT my concern, as it's meddling like we did in the Euromaiden.

Your "skin" is to demonize Putin without any constructive alternative-pure Russiaphobia
 
Thing1 said:
No one ever said it was the ONLY reason. You only have strawmen.

It was a significant reason. It doesn't matter what Lee himself said. He led the army that was fighting to preserve slavery.

I can't believe you're even trying to argue this.
Click to expand...


so ur claim that lee led the fight to preserve slavery was overblown at best & disingenuous at worst?
 
God Emperor said:
is that so?

post em

then show me proof that was the reason every southern soldier including lee decided to fight for the south

i'll wait
Click to expand...

The bolded is hilarious.

You still don't get it, and won't. A lot of Nazi soldiers I'm sure fought to protect their homeland or their families - it doesn't matter. The main CAUSE they fought for was evil. Ignore that, though.

And the secessionist statements have been posted here many times this week. You haven't seen or read them? Then how can you make the arguments you're making - out of sheer ignorance? Wow.
 
God Emperor said:
so ur claim that lee led the fight to preserve slavery was overblown at best & disingenuous at worst?
Click to expand...

No - it was 100% accurate.

Can you explain your reasoning why it was overblown? And please don't bring his personal feelings into it.

I think you are genuinely lost in this discussion.
 
Thing1 said:
I didn't answer it because it's irrelevant.

I have said MANY times that his personal views do not matter in this instance. He led the army that was fighting to keep people enslaved. And he knew that.

The end.
Click to expand...
did you know he was a colonel in the US army?
did you know he graduated from west Point?
He was much more then you want to shoebox him into -and he turned down Union command because he could not lead a fight against Virginia -his primary loyalty
 
anatta said:
did you know he was a colonel in the US army?
did you know he graduated from west Point?
He was much more then you want to shoebox him into -and he turned down Union command because he could not lead a fight against Virginia -his primary loyalty
Click to expand...

What the fuck, anatta. I'm not trying to "shoebox" him. I have said MANY times that he was clearly a more complex man, and may have been extremely honorable in many other ways.

Symbolically - which is all that applies to his statue - that DOES NOT MATTER. His place in our history is mainly as the general who led the fight to keep people enslaved. How do you guys keep missing this? How is that possible?
 
He had earlier been asked by one of his lieutenants if he intended to fight for the Confederacy or the Union, to which Lee replied, "I shall never bear arms against the Union, but it may be necessary for me to carry a musket in the defense of my native state, Virginia, in which case I shall not prove recreant to my duty."[87]

Meanwhile, Lee ignored an offer of command from the Confederate States of America. After Lincoln's call for troops to put down the rebellion, it was obvious that Virginia would quickly secede. Lee on April 18 was offered by presidential advisor Francis P. Blair a role as major general to command the defense of Washington. He replied:

Mr. Blair, I look upon secession as anarchy. If I owned the four millions of slaves in the South I would sacrifice them all to the Union; but how can I draw my sword upon Virginia, my native state?[88]
Click to expand...

Lee resigned from the U.S. Army on April 20 and took up command of the Virginia state forces on April 23
 
Thing1 said:
No - it was 100% accurate.

Can you explain your reasoning why it was overblown? And please don't bring his personal feelings into it.

I think you are genuinely lost in this discussion.
Click to expand...

of course u do becuz u cant prove he fought becuz he wanted slavery to continue

u only speculate and have zero evidence so far to say that he wanted to maintain slavery

its true that slavery was a motivating factor for some

r u aware that early in the war all owners of 20 or more slaves were excused military service?

i wonder how many evil slave owners were capering at the head of their troops screaming lets die to keep the slave in chains
 
Thing1 said:
What the fuck, anatta. I'm not trying to "shoebox" him. I have said MANY times that he was clearly a more complex man, and may have been extremely honorable in many other ways.

Symbolically - which is all that applies to his statue - that DOES NOT MATTER. His place in our history is mainly as the general who led the fight to keep people enslaved. How do you guys keep missing this? How is that possible?
Click to expand...
you show your ignorance of the complexities of Lee. He was much more then commander of the CSA,
and took that role only reluctantly as an inevitability.

Yet you constantly screech Lee can ONLY BE SEEN as commander of the CSA.

Which is a good argument for leaving up his statue -
so others might look at him and question his role and explore the many nuances of the Civil war.

Tearing down his statue invites ignorance and unquestioning screeching that Lee was nothing more then a "Nazi"
 
anatta said:
you show your ignorance of the complexities of Lee. He was much more then commander of the CSA,
and took that role only reluctantly as an inevitability.

Yet you constantly screech Lee can ONLY BE SEEN as commander of the CSA.

Which is a good argument for leaving up his statue -
so others might look at him and question his role and explore the many nuances of the Civil war.

Tearing down his statue invites ignorance and unquestioning screeching that Lee was nothing more then a "Nazi"
Click to expand...

Holy shit. You completely ignored what I posted.

They should have a drool forum. Seriously. You guys are all useless.
 
Thing1 said:
Holy shit. You completely ignored what I posted.

They should have a drool forum. Seriously. You guys are all useless.
Click to expand...
i ignore nothing.
You and others are stuck on "nazis" and Lee's only historical value is as commander of the CSA.

He has an extremely interesting biography and is much more a figure worth historical study then that excess simplificaton
 
Thing1 said:
The bolded is hilarious.

You still don't get it, and won't. A lot of Nazi soldiers I'm sure fought to protect their homeland or their families - it doesn't matter. The main CAUSE they fought for was evil. Ignore that, though.

And the secessionist statements have been posted here many times this week. You haven't seen or read them? Then how can you make the arguments you're making - out of sheer ignorance? Wow.
Click to expand...


it doesnt matter 2 u

but the distinction matters to others

many consider the USA to be evil and say our troops were baby killers who should be blamed for fighting in vietnam as if they went there to do evil

many say US troops in iraq were complicit in the illegal invasion and the tortures and deaths of civilian just by being there

will u consider that a soldier may serve and fight without embracing or embodying the most negative philosophies of some in their govt?
 
anatta said:
i ignore nothing.
You and others are stuck on "nazis" and Lee's only historical value is as commander of the CSA.

He has an extremely interesting biography and is much more a figure worth historical study then that excess simplificaton
Click to expand...

That's actually a lie, because you're missing what I'm posting.

It's what he symbolizes, like it or not. And w/ the statue, that's what matters. When you fight to keep people enslaved, it doesn't mean that's all you're about - but it eclipses everything else. And no one is shedding tears for Lee because of that. He made his choice.
 
Thing1 said:
That's actually a lie, because you're missing what I'm posting.

It's what he symbolizes, like it or not. And w/ the statue, that's what matters. When you fight to keep people enslaved, it doesn't mean that's all you're about - but it eclipses everything else. And no one is shedding tears for Lee because of that. He made his choice.
Click to expand...
one way to combat ignorance is to interest people in more then just a shallow look at figures.
Promoting any kind of interest in a study of the civil war is a noble goal. It's part of who we are.

Most people DO know him only that way -so you expose him- to generate interest in the man.
Some will go much further then that. I started with just the battles and filled in the men and the causes
because of my initial interest in just the battles
 
the cultural revolution of the left is aimed at excusing there own idols for anything while casting americas historical movers & shakers as cartoonish 1 dimensional evil villains

they will stamp out all positive or neutral references to those they hate and expunge the crimes of there favorites

look at how they ignore MLKs stance on gays
 
ZappasGuitar said:
You claimed Liberals - PLURAL - wanted to tear down Washington and Jefferson statues.

I only saw ONE Liberal stating that.

Keep trying!

Ya know, these silly word games you like to play sure are fun!
Click to expand...


u conveniently ignored the other examples

thats what i expect from a lib

wilful ignorance
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top