The GOP HATES Our Fighting Men And Women

[Port Tack]

I actually DESPISE the term " fighting for OUR FREEDOM" most of the time it is used. Nothing against our military at all,...BUT...they actually havent FOUGHT for OUR FREEDOM since 1945. STOP SAYING IT,....sounds STUPID!

Yeah that's right, fuck those veterans. What a sick shithead.

 

[Port Tack]

I guess you don't know that the VA conducted a multi-decade study as part of Agent Orange exposure on the members of Ranch Hand. That is, those that actually handled, sprayed, serviced the aircraft, etc., using Agent Orange. Of 1206 eligible members, 1174 agreed to participate. These participants were tracked for twenty years of their medical history from entering the study to its end. What was found was that the group as a whole had a lower incidence of cancer and other health issues compared to the general public.
The only anomaly the VA could find in this scientific study of those most exposed to Agent Orange was they had a 50% higher rate of pre-cancerous carcinomas an easily treated form of pre-skin cancer.

So, why should the VA be paying out massive sums to people claiming Agent Orange exposure when the most conclusive study ever done on its effects on humans found the above? All of the legal claims were based on laboratory studies done by academics under artificial conditions on the basis that dioxin was the issue.

I'll bet that Leftists and other retards will accept at face value this bill without even considering the possibilities that most of the claims made resulting from it are bogus.

If they served then their healthcare is paid for by the VA. What fucking difference does it make if they got cancer from smoking or got it by some burn pit? It should still be covered.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

There was no "unrelated" spending in the bill. It is the same bill repubs flip flopped on 3 times.

actually, from the news I heard yesterday the vote wasn't on the bill at all.......it was only a vote of cloture, whether the Senate would allow amendments before voting.......yesterday there were three votes on amendments, none were passed.......then the bill was voted on and it passed....86-11......another lib'rul thread fail.....

 

[T. A. Gardner]

you are trying to say that veterans will abuse this bill to get care and they really were not around any burn pit. If they are a veteran then their medical should be covered by the VA anyway so how can they abuse anything.

It happened with Agent Orange, Gulf War Syndrome, and PTSD as but three examples. Not all "veterans" are honorable ones. The legal definition extends to many guys that you probably wouldn't count as a veteran, like ones discharged for repeated minor misconduct or drug use, medical or mental issues, etc. All you have to do is serve a minimum of 90 days actively to get veteran status legally too.

 

[zappasguitar]

You are wrong. What you posted was opinion, not facts. There was a very detailed study conducted over 20 years that disproves what is clamed in post 35. Dioxin is overblown as carcinogen, and much of the early hysteria about it came from better test equipment without any empirical evidence to back up the results obtained.

In fact, what he posted in post # 35 is factual...

In 1979, a class action lawsuit was filed on behalf of 2.4 million veterans who were exposed to Agent Orange during their service in Vietnam. Five years later, in an out-of-court-settlement, seven large chemical companies that manufactured the herbicide agreed to pay $180 million in compensation to the veterans or their next of kin.

https://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/08/15/agent.orange.suit/

In 1988, Dr. James Clary, an Air Force researcher associated with Operation Ranch Hand, wrote to Senator Tom Daschle, “When we initiated the herbicide program in the 1960s, we were aware of the potential for damage due to dioxin contamination in the herbicide. However, because the material was to be used on the enemy, none of us were overly concerned. We never considered a scenario in which our own personnel would become contaminated with the herbicide.”

https://www.history.com/topics/vietnam-war/agent-orange-1

In 1991, President George H.W. Bush signed into law the Agent Orange Act, which mandated that some diseases associated with Agent Orange and other herbicides (including non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, soft tissue sarcomas and chloracne) be treated as the result of wartime service. This helped codify the VA’s response to veterans with conditions related to their exposure to Agent Orange.

https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/statement-signing-the-agent-orange-act-1991

 

[T. A. Gardner]

In fact, what he posted in post # 35 is factual...

In 1979, a class action lawsuit was filed on behalf of 2.4 million veterans who were exposed to Agent Orange during their service in Vietnam. Five years later, in an out-of-court-settlement, seven large chemical companies that manufactured the herbicide agreed to pay $180 million in compensation to the veterans or their next of kin.

https://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/08/15/agent.orange.suit/

In 1988, Dr. James Clary, an Air Force researcher associated with Operation Ranch Hand, wrote to Senator Tom Daschle, “When we initiated the herbicide program in the 1960s, we were aware of the potential for damage due to dioxin contamination in the herbicide. However, because the material was to be used on the enemy, none of us were overly concerned. We never considered a scenario in which our own personnel would become contaminated with the herbicide.”

https://www.history.com/topics/vietnam-war/agent-orange-1

In 1991, President George H.W. Bush signed into law the Agent Orange Act, which mandated that some diseases associated with Agent Orange and other herbicides (including non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, soft tissue sarcomas and chloracne) be treated as the result of wartime service. This helped codify the VA’s response to veterans with conditions related to their exposure to Agent Orange.

https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/statement-signing-the-agent-orange-act-1991

So? It's largely irrelevant. What level of exposure is necessary to cause some debilitating injury? If those using the chemical itself, and exposed to thousands of times the amount anyone in the field was exposed to what proof of injury by exposure is there? It's like saying you or I bought a gallon of Roundup herbicide (another one liars... err, lawyers are making bank off of) and later got cancer or whatever.

Since it was an out-of-court settlement there is no real proof Agent Orange caused anything, just the company paying off because their accountants and liars said it'd be cheaper than going to trial.

The opinion of a single researcher out of dozens, probably hundreds, means little on its own too. If anything, the Agent Orange exposure thing in 98% political, 2% scientific.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Why does the GOP hate the men and women who fight for their freedoms?

They pretty much hate everyone. A lot of them even hate themselves. Can you blame them? lol

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

So? It's largely irrelevant. What level of exposure is necessary to cause some debilitating injury? If those using the chemical itself, and exposed to thousands of times the amount anyone in the field was exposed to what proof of injury by exposure is there? It's like saying you or I bought a gallon of Roundup herbicide (another one liars... err, lawyers are making bank off of) and later got cancer or whatever.

Since it was an out-of-court settlement there is no real proof Agent Orange caused anything, just the company paying off because their accountants and liars said it'd be cheaper than going to trial.

The opinion of a single researcher out of dozens, probably hundreds, means little on its own too. If anything, the Agent Orange exposure thing in 98% political, 2% scientific.

You are absolutely wrong about Agent Orange. Its chief ingredient was dioxin, a potent chemical poison. Ever see the before and after pics of the Ukrainian president who was poisoned with it?

From the EPA: "Dioxins are highly toxic and can cause cancer, reproductive and developmental problems, damage to the immune system, and can interfere with hormones."

 

[archives]

Why does the GOP hate the men and women who fight for their freedoms?


Senate GOP block bill that would secure health benefits for veterans who are suffering due to their exposure to toxic burn pits.


Former Daily Show host Jon Stewart stayed on the warpath on Friday in his efforts to get a bill passed that would secure health benefits for veterans who are suffering due to their exposure to toxic burn pits.

To make his case, Stewart went on the conservative Fox News to make a direct plea to its viewers that the legislation was worth passing even as Republican members of the Senate blocked it earlier this week.

During an interview with Fox News' Bill Hemmer, Stewart directly debunked what he described as "misinformation" about the legislation.

"No spending that is not related to veterans has been added to this bill," Stewart began. "No last-minute budget gimmicks have been added to this bill. This bill is purely based on toxic exposure health care and benefits to veterans."

He then encouraged viewers to read the bill at Congress.gov and see for themselves that there is no hidden agenda inside the legislation.

"Hunter Biden didn't sneak in and add unrelated spending in the middle of the night," he said. "This bill is exactly as it was, with the removal of one sentence that had to do with taxation and rural medical facilities!

https://www.rawstory.com/jon-stewart-fox-news/

They certainly did a quick 180 on that one when John Stewart was out front everywhere yelling about the idiocy of rejecting the very same proposal they voted for last June

Rumor was that Mitch and the Republican Senators were pissed that Biden was finally going to get his Build Back Better bill with Manchin’s reversal, and the last thing they wanted was another feather in Biden’s cap with this Veteran legislation. Certainly backfired on the GOP

 

[T. A. Gardner]

You are absolutely wrong about Agent Orange. Its chief ingredient was dioxin, a potent chemical poison. Ever see the before and after pics of the Ukrainian president who was poisoned with it?

From the EPA: "Dioxins are highly toxic and can cause cancer, reproductive and developmental problems, damage to the immune system, and can interfere with hormones."

WRONG!

Absolutely wrong. Dioxin was and is a chemical contaminant and a byproduct of the manufacturing process at levels around 5 ppb or less (next to nothing). It was not an active ingredient.

Agent Orange molecules

Dioxin molecule

https://www.epa.gov/dioxin/learn-about-dioxin

Dioxins are naturally occurring and often present in miniscule and insignificant amounts in many, most, organic compounds.

 

[Noking]

WRONG!

Absolutely wrong. Dioxin was and is a chemical contaminant and a byproduct of the manufacturing process at levels around 5 ppb or less (next to nothing). It was not an active ingredient.

Agent Orange molecules

Dioxin molecule

https://www.epa.gov/dioxin/learn-about-dioxin

Dioxins are naturally occurring and often present in miniscule and insignificant amounts in many, most, organic compounds.

So what's the point in the Dioxin molecule diagram????????????????? Do you understand organic chemistry????????????

 

[T. A. Gardner]

So what's the point in the Dioxin molecule diagram????????????????? Do you understand organic chemistry????????????

Yes, I do. Dioxin is present only in miniscule quantities as a contaminant in Agent Orange. It was not an active ingredient or one deliberately put in the product by the manufacturer.

 

[Noking]

Yes, I do. Dioxin is present only in miniscule quantities as a contaminant in Agent Orange. It was not an active ingredient or one deliberately put in the product by the manufacturer.

Where are you getting this?????

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

WRONG!

Absolutely wrong. Dioxin was and is a chemical contaminant and a byproduct of the manufacturing process at levels around 5 ppb or less (next to nothing). It was not an active ingredient.

Agent Orange molecules

Dioxins are naturally occurring and often present in miniscule and insignificant amounts in many, most, organic compounds.

Agent Orange was a herbicide mixture used by the U.S. military during the Vietnam War. Much of it contained a dangerous chemical contaminant called dioxin. Production of Agent Orange ended in the 1970s and is no longer in use. The dioxin contaminant however continues to have harmful impact today. As many U.S.Vietnam-era veterans know, dioxin is a highly toxic and persistent organic pollutant linked to cancers, diabetes, birth defects and other disabilities.

What is Agent Orange?

The United States has been involved for more than two decades in a controversy over the military use of herbicides in Vietnam during the Vietnam era. The controversy centers around both the use of herbicides in Vietnam and the purported health problems associated with exposure to herbicides, primarily Agent Orange and its contaminant 2,3,7,8-TCDD (2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzo-p-dioxin), known scientifically as TCDD and to the general public as dioxin1 (Young and Reggiani, 1988).

History of the Controversy Over the Use of Herbicides

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Where are you getting this?????

From actual useful sources

The defoliant, sprayed from low-flying aircraft, consisted of approximately equal amounts of the unpurified butyl esters of 2,4-dichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4-D) and 2,4,5-trichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4,5-T). Agent Orange also contained small, variable proportions of 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzo-p-dioxin—commonly called “dioxin”—which is a by-product of the manufacture of 2,4,5-T and is toxic even in minute quantities. About 50 million litres (13 million gallons) of Agent Orange—containing about 170 kg (375 pounds) of dioxin—were dropped on Vietnam.

https://www.britannica.com/science/Agent-Orange

Abstract
1 The minimum toxic dose of tetrachloro-dibenzo-p-dioxin (TCDD) for man has been calculated from monkey and human data to be 0.1 microgram kg-1. 2 The amount of TCDD which man takes in from his environment is about 1/2050 of that present in one square metre of his immediate environment. 3 The average concentration of TCDD present in Vietnam immediately after spraying Agent Orange was 8 microgram m-2. 4 A soldier directly sprayed would attain an internal body concentration of 7 X 10(-5) microgram kg-1 or 1/1750 of the minimum toxic dose; soldiers moving through previously sprayed areas would ingest much less. 5 These quantitative aspects indicate that the dioxin sprayed with Agent Orange in Vietnam cannot have caused systemic illnesses in Vietnam veterans or birth defects in their children.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7348691/

1/1750 is .057% or NOTHING!

Dioxin was negligible component of Agent Orange unless you go to some radical Leftist, conspiracy theory, nutgoober site like this one where facts are absent and speculation is rampant.

https://www.aspeninstitute.org/programs/agent-orange-in-vietnam-program/agent-orangedioxin-history/

If you read what those idiots write, there's not one mention--ONE MENTION--of the concentration of dioxin present in Agent Orange. They're lying by omission.

 

[Port Tack]

actually, from the news I heard yesterday the vote wasn't on the bill at all.......it was only a vote of cloture, whether the Senate would allow amendments before voting.......yesterday there were three votes on amendments, none were passed.......then the bill was voted on and it passed....86-11......another lib'rul thread fail.....

The bill was passed after 3 votes on it. It passed with 84 votes a month ago, it failed with only like 55 votes a week ago and it passed yesterday with 86 votes. the same bill all 3 times, no changes. That is fact and I don't give a shit what the fuck you heard or when you heard it.

 

[Port Tack]

WRONG!

Absolutely wrong. Dioxin was and is a chemical contaminant and a byproduct of the manufacturing process at levels around 5 ppb or less (next to nothing). It was not an active ingredient.

Agent Orange molecules

Dioxin molecule

https://www.epa.gov/dioxin/learn-about-dioxin

Dioxins are naturally occurring and often present in miniscule and insignificant amounts in many, most, organic compounds.

Agent orange does not have that many carbons in it's side chain and agent orange does contain dioxin and 5 ppb is deadly. I am a toxicologist and chemist and measure toxins every day. Most to concentrations down to 5 -25 ppt parts per trillion, that is roughly 1000 times less than 5 parts per billion.

 

[Port Tack]

So what's the point in the Dioxin molecule diagram????????????????? Do you understand organic chemistry????????????

I do and it's very easy to see how the esters in those structures he is calling agent orange can cleave and form dioxin

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Agent orange does not have that many carbons in it's side chain and agent orange does contain dioxin and 5 ppb is deadly. I am a toxicologist and chemist and measure toxins every day. Most to concentrations down to 5 -25 ppt parts per trillion, that is roughly 1000 times less than 5 parts per billion.

Just because you can measure it doesn't make it significant, and your worthless appeal to authority means nothing to me. I take it from your responses, you are one of those totally delusional retarded radical Leftist fucksticks that has an unshakable "zero tolerance" mentality. Let me ask you, what level of some pollutant is acceptable?

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/dioxins-and-their-effects-on-human-health

Everybody says they're dangerous but never says in what amount. Those miniscule amounts aren't the problem.

 

[LurchAddams]

You certainly are nasty, my dear.

Yep, sure is "nasty" be be called on your own, bullshit, freak.