The Electoral Count

General Chamberlain said:
But, Ford supported the bailout, because Ford believed it indirectly needed the bailout to go forward.
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That's not true either. Ford supported the bail out because they are essentially dependent on the same supply chain for parts, supplies and materials as GM, Chrysler, HoA and ToA are dependent on and the collapse of GM and Chrysler would have devestated that supply chain which would have adversly impacted the entire US auto industry, not just the Big three. Point of fact, HoA and ToA also supported the bail out for the same damned reasons. PiMP doesn't know what he's talking about. He's just a right wing anti-working people hack who wants to blame unions for the short sightedness and bad business decisions GM and Chryslers management had made putting all their eggs into the SUV/Light truck market.
 
Derp Derp said:
the short sightedness and bad business decisions GM and Chryslers management had made putting all their eggs into the SUV/Light truck market.
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lol....given that ALL their profits came from the sales of SUVs and trucks, why would you call it short sighted?........
 
PostmodernProphet said:
bullshit.....that was WHY GM needed a bailout and everyone knows it.....
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You don't know what the hell you're talking about PiMP. Ford wasn't even remotely in that position. You're a complete right wing hack if you're going to blame working people and their unions for the bad business decisions GM and Chryslers management made. Ford made reforms to it's business plan when the market changed with the exploding of crude oil prices and GM and Chrysler did not. End of Story! GM and Chrysler got into the position they were in cause they didn't diversify their product line to suit changing economic condidtions and when SUV's and Light Trucks became to expensive to fuel up and nobody wanted them they got caught with their shorts down. Again, END OF ARGUMENT! That's what happened. Don't fucking blame it on their workers. That's complete bullshit.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
lol....given that ALL their profits came from the sales of SUVs and trucks, why would you call it short sighted?........
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BECAUSE PEOPLE STOPPED BUYING THEM YOU MORON! The same things happening now but they learned. The they had fantastic sales this year despite the high gas price? Why? Cause they aint selling gas guzzling SUV's! Their selling fuel efficient cars by the shit load and both GM and Chrysler have vastly expanded those lines while decreasing their SUV/Light Truck line of business. Haven't you been paying attention to what the hell is going on?
 
Damocles said:
Yeah, as much as Reagan's second term should have been "easy" for the Dems... Did you see the economy?

What I see happening now is, the republican candidates allowing the President to define the argument. If it continues, it won't be an "easy" year for the republicans regardless of the economy.
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Yes, Obama is definetely taking a page out of Reagan's hand book. He's staying out of the fray, is being disciplined and staying on message. The Republican field which has been famous in the past for rallying around the front runner and being incredibly disciplined about staying on message has been all over the place shooting itself in the foot and forming the circular firing squads the Democrats have been famous for in the past.
 
Derp Derp said:
You don't know what the hell you're talking about PiMP. Ford wasn't even remotely in that position. You're a complete right wing hack if you're going to blame working people and their unions for the bad business decisions GM and Chryslers management made. Ford made reforms to it's business plan when the market changed with the exploding of crude oil prices and GM and Chrysler did not. End of Story! GM and Chrysler got into the position they were in cause they didn't diversify their product line to suit changing economic condidtions and when SUV's and Light Trucks became to expensive to fuel up and nobody wanted them they got caught with their shorts down. Again, END OF ARGUMENT! That's what happened. Don't fucking blame it on their workers. That's complete bullshit.
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face it, Mutt.....you're so deeply mired in liberal bullshit you either can't see the truth or you just won't admit it.....all auto makers including Ford and the internationals were making as many trucks and SUVs as GM and they didn't need a bailout......
 
Derp Derp said:
BECAUSE PEOPLE STOPPED BUYING THEM YOU MORON! The same things happening now but they learned. The they had fantastic sales this year despite the high gas price? Why? Cause they aint selling gas guzzling SUV's! Their selling fuel efficient cars by the shit load and both GM and Chrysler have vastly expanded those lines while decreasing their SUV/Light Truck line of business. Haven't you been paying attention to what the hell is going on?
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yes, I have....found on google under the title "Trucks, SUVs help pull Detroit auto sales up - Oct. 3, 2011"

Sales of GM's Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra full-size pickups increased more than 25% compared to last year, while sales of the automaker's big Chevrolet Tahoe, Suburban and GMC Yukon SUVs, while much smaller in absolute numbers, increased by 63% to 83% depending on the model.
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http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/03/autos/september_auto_sales/index.htm
 
Damocles said:
Many of the polls also reflect the "wishes" of people who will vote for Romney later to be somebody else. Those who really want Santorum will say that they won't vote for Romney in the polls in the hopes that it will cause others to vote against him in the primary.

During a primary with 4 candidates, many people who support 1 over the rest will try to sway others by saying they'll never vote for so-and-so during a poll, but later when they are the candidate they not just support them, but more "loudly" than others.
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Out of the current flock of republican presidential candidates the only one that I will say I won't vote for is Newt. I'll look for a Cindy McKinney again if Newt somehow got the nod. He won't.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
yes, I have....found on google under the title "Trucks, SUVs help pull Detroit auto sales up - Oct. 3, 2011"



http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/03/autos/september_auto_sales/index.htm
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They did indeed but it was bloated vehicle lineups, overproductions and expensive rebates on particularly their light trucks and SUV's that precipitated the crises. When gas prices rose in 2008 demand for pickups and SUV's and minivans, who were largely exempt from CAFE standards fell off substantially. That got even worse when the Bush recession hit. Pickups which accounted for 15% of the big threes gross sales dropped off to 10%. That was a huge hit and did not start rebounding till recently. Market trends are that with rising gas cost again, we can probably expect another drop off in light truck sales. GM and Chrysler particularly was ear marking higher margins on the sales of light trucks and SUV's. Typically around $10,000 per unit where as they were earning slim margins or even losses on cars. Ford began reforming it's business model on 2004/2005 and it saved their ass. Overall sales for GM had dropped off by 10% by 2007 but by 2009 because of the drop in demand for SUV's Minivans and Light trucks sales had fallen by 20%!!!!! So there's no argument that GM and Chryslers lack of diversity and it's over reliance on the sale gas guzzling SUV's and light trucks painted their ass into a cornor.

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/refer...ects/c/credit_crisis/auto_industry/index.html
 
PostmodernProphet said:
face it, Mutt.....you're so deeply mired in liberal bullshit you either can't see the truth or you just won't admit it.....all auto makers including Ford and the internationals were making as many trucks and SUVs as GM and they didn't need a bailout......
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Dude, being slightly to the left of Atallah the Hun constitutes being mired in liberal bull shit in your eyes. Fortunately I admire liberals as being some of the greatest people our nation ever producted. I truly admire the great liberals of our history like, Washington, Jefferson, Jackson, Madison, Monroe, Adams, Franklin, FDR. Granted FDR wasn't as radical a liberal as the others I listed but still....I admire him immensly. Thank god I'm not a wingnut reactionary like you!
 
Derp Derp said:
They did indeed but it was bloated vehicle lineups, overproductions and expensive rebates on particularly their light trucks and SUV's that precipitated the crises. When gas prices rose in 2008 demand for pickups and SUV's and minivans, who were largely exempt from CAFE standards fell off substantially. That got even worse when the Bush recession hit. Pickups which accounted for 15% of the big threes gross sales dropped off to 10%. That was a huge hit and did not start rebounding till recently. Market trends are that with rising gas cost again, we can probably expect another drop off in light truck sales. GM and Chrysler particularly was ear marking higher margins on the sales of light trucks and SUV's. Typically around $10,000 per unit where as they were earning slim margins or even losses on cars. Ford began reforming it's business model on 2004/2005 and it saved their ass. Overall sales for GM had dropped off by 10% by 2007 but by 2009 because of the drop in demand for SUV's Minivans and Light trucks sales had fallen by 20%!!!!! So there's no argument that GM and Chryslers lack of diversity and it's over reliance on the sale gas guzzling SUV's and light trucks painted their ass into a cornor.

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/refer...ects/c/credit_crisis/auto_industry/index.html
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and all the car manufacturers were hit equally by the same phenomena......GM and Chrysler, hindered by massive pension and benefit contracts were the two that couldn't survive.....so, was it reduced sales or the pensions that killed them?.......
 
Jefferson is my favorite, the most liberal of them all! A true social liberal who understood that both government and corporate power had to be limited for freedom to survive.
 
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