The Constitution means exactly what it says

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christiefan915 said:
More mind-reading, Kreskin?

I don't have a problem with some gun regulations. Make it "all weapons" regulations so as not to offend your delicate sensibilities. I want common sense measures to protect the populace, maintain order and try to prevent crime. This country has a culture of violence, gun and otherwise. Maybe you want to take a crack at explaining why the country is enamored of guns. It's certainly not just a question of protection.
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i love it when weak libs like yourself have to resort to the same lame ad homs over and over....

i never claimed you said anything

i asked. but having an honest discussion with you is virtually impossible.

from your post: i -- i am ONLY GUESSING, HENCE TRYING TO FURTHER THE CONVERSATION -- i take that you believe in some regulation, but, believe in the individual right to own guns?

IS THIS RIGHT? <--- PAY ATTENTION TO THAT QUESTION <-- NOTICE THE WORD QUESTION

::)
 
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SmarterThanYou said:
i need you to explain how one thinks 'common sense' measures improve the peoples ability to maintain the security of a free state. can you do that?
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First, tell me why you think that either we're not free now, or if we are free, it's because of guns.

If a man can shoot an eleven-year old he caught on his lawn, that doesn't spell freedom to me, when other means could have been used to make her leave. Other means = common sense.

I'm having trouble understanding where you're coming from, because it seems to me you think the country is on the verge of anarchy and only gun possession will keep it from going under.
 
Yurt said:
nice back peddle on the strawman....didn't think you would own up to it.

fair enough on your answer. there are times i don't agree with the majority either. i was wondering though, if you and zappa could actually formulate your own reasoning on why you think the majority is wrong. if you want to hang your hat on what someone else says....just say so. i just want to know where you personally stand.
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<sigh>

Their dissents put into clear, convincing language the ideas and thoughts that I have also, but can't articulate as well.

Why do you think it was the right decision? Probably because your thoughts and ideas equal those of the majority.
 
christiefan915 said:
I don't believe most lives are at the mercy of violent thugs. I haven't run the numbers but the US population is 311,500,000+. How many are violent criminals, percentage-wise?
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so the little people, the minorities, the ones that can't protect themselves, you prefer to ignore them since they are not in the large percentage of people, and yet they still are at the mercy of violent thugs. they don't count to you?

christiefan915 said:
I'm more worried about other freedoms.
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what freedom could be more important than the freedom of self preservation?
 
christiefan915 said:
First, tell me why you think that either we're not free now, or if we are free, it's because of guns.
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are we free to defend our homes from criminal invasion by state costumed thugs who get a 'reasonable and justified' free pass when they murder us? jose guerena mean anything to you?

christiefan915 said:
If a man can shoot an eleven-year old he caught on his lawn, that doesn't spell freedom to me, when other means could have been used to make her leave. Other means = common sense.
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you said in an earlier post in this thread, that you're not worried about the small percentage of people, only the larger percentage, so if this one idiot commits a crime with a gun, why is it important to you now?

christiefan915 said:
I'm having trouble understanding where you're coming from, because it seems to me you think the country is on the verge of anarchy and only gun possession will keep it from going under.
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it's called reality. something i've noticed that you seem to be unaware of, unless you see a republican majority. Then you see anarchy and mass killings of liberals. you need to remove your liberal colored glasses and look at the real world.
 
Yurt said:
i love it when weak libs like yourself have to resort to the same lame ad homs over and over....

i never claimed you said anything

i asked. but having an honest discussion with you is virtually impossible.

from your post: i -- i am ONLY GUESSING, HENCE TRYING TO FURTHER THE CONVERSATION -- i take that you believe in some regulation, but, believe in the individual right to own guns?

IS THIS RIGHT? <--- PAY ATTENTION TO THAT QUESTION <-- NOTICE THE WORD QUESTION

::)
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You said "in your world....no knives, no guns, nothing for citizens....only the police can have that....is that right?" You phrased the question as though the answer was a given. Isn't that what lawyers call a leading question?

You need to take a step back and ask yourself why so many people here are put off by your posts. If you're going to use that snarky tone, don't be surprised if I answer in kind.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
are we free to defend our homes from criminal invasion by state costumed thugs who get a 'reasonable and justified' free pass when they murder us? jose guerena mean anything to you?
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Let us know when you share his fate.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
so the little people, the minorities, the ones that can't protect themselves, you prefer to ignore them since they are not in the large percentage of people, and yet they still are at the mercy of violent thugs. they don't count to you?
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What is it with you guys and your leading questions?

Violent criminals are in the minority, the little people, minorities, those who can't protect themselves, etc. are part of the majority. How am I ignoring them? Are you saying that people you describe in that certain way have the kind of problems that can only be solved by carrying guns?

I have never in my life been in a situation where I needed a gun to feel safe.

what freedom could be more important than the freedom of self preservation?
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In our country, freedom of speech, due process, trial by jury, prohibition of cruel and unusual punishment, to name a few. Because IMO these are the ones that most impact the population.
 
christiefan915 said:
You said "in your world....no knives, no guns, nothing for citizens....only the police can have that....is that right?" You phrased the question as though the answer was a given. Isn't that what lawyers call a leading question?

You need to take a step back and ask yourself why so many people here are put off by your posts. If you're going to use that snarky tone, don't be surprised if I answer in kind.
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my good lord....i can't even ASK someone a question on this board with you attacking me for it. wtf is your problem?

you need to take a step back yourself and ask why is it you are so pissy when someone ask a question you don't like. snarky? you are so full of snark and insults i find it comical you're whining about some perceived snark/insult back to you.

NOTE: the question wasn't even to YOU...it was to zappa....yet you had to take up his mantle and get all personal because someone asked a question.

what is your problem? i ask a simple question and you shit your pants.
 
christiefan915 said:
What is it with you guys and your leading questions?

Violent criminals are in the minority, the little people, minorities, those who can't protect themselves, etc. are part of the majority. How am I ignoring them? Are you saying that people you describe in that certain way have the kind of problems that can only be solved by carrying guns?

I have never in my life been in a situation where I needed a gun to feel safe.
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then why are you trying to argue a bullshit argument? if violent criminals are in the minority, gun laws will have little to no effect, so why push for them? how does grandma defend herself against 220 lb brutus?

christiefan915 said:
In our country, freedom of speech, due process, trial by jury, prohibition of cruel and unusual punishment, to name a few. Because IMO these are the ones that most impact the population.
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how good are any of those rights to someone that's been killed because they couldn't defend themselves properly? and how do those rights get protected when your precious government violates those daily?
 
SmarterThanYou said:
are we free to defend our homes from criminal invasion by state costumed thugs who get a 'reasonable and justified' free pass when they murder us? jose guerena mean anything to you?
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Do you mean the police breaking in without a warrant?

Look, I live in Pittsburgh and see police crap almost every day. I hadn't heard of Jose Guerena before now, have you heard of Jordan Miles, Johnny Gammage or Judith Barrett? And on the other hand, how about Christina Korbe?

you said in an earlier post in this thread, that you're not worried about the small percentage of people, only the larger percentage,
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Did I actually say I wasn't worried, or did I say that the percentage of being the victim of violent crime is small?

so if this one idiot commits a crime with a gun, why is it important to you now?
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This idiot to you is a violent thug to me. And I don't expect 11-year olds to carry weapons for defense when they're out playing.

it's called reality. something i've noticed that you seem to be unaware of, unless you see a republican majority. Then you see anarchy and mass killings of liberals. you need to remove your liberal colored glasses and look at the real world.
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Please, you're pulling a yurt with that business about "mass killing of liberals". If you don't think I live in the real world, try googling crime statistics, police violence, and gun deaths for Pittsburgh.
 
christiefan915 said:
Do you mean the police breaking in without a warrant?
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that's one. there are many more.

christiefan915 said:
Look, I live in Pittsburgh and see police crap almost every day. I hadn't heard of Jose Guerena before now, have you heard of Jordan Miles, Johnny Gammage or Judith Barrett? And on the other hand, how about Christina Korbe?
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all of them. In fact, I even posted about Mr. Miles when it happened.

christiefan915 said:
Did I actually say I wasn't worried, or did I say that the percentage of being the victim of violent crime is small?
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by dismissing the victims of violent crime because it's a small percentage has the same outcome as ignoring violent crime itself. so what do you really want?

christiefan915 said:
This idiot to you is a violent thug to me. And I don't expect 11-year olds to carry weapons for defense when they're out playing.
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yet you expect me to relinquish my rights because some idiot violent thug committed a crime?

christiefan915 said:
Please, you're pulling a yurt with that business about "mass killing of liberals". If you don't think I live in the real world, try googling crime statistics, police violence, and gun deaths for Pittsburgh.
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YOU mentioned the mass killing of liberals. I'm merely reminding you of what you said. I live between dallas and fort worth, so don't think for a second I don't know about crime and police violence, k?
 
Yurt said:
my good lord....i can't even ASK someone a question on this board with you attacking me for it. wtf is your problem?

you need to take a step back yourself and ask why is it you are so pissy when someone ask a question you don't like. snarky? you are so full of snark and insults i find it comical you're whining about some perceived snark/insult back to you.

NOTE: the question wasn't even to YOU...it was to zappa....yet you had to take up his mantle and get all personal because someone asked a question.

what is your problem? i ask a simple question and you shit your pants.
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Q. E. D.
 
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