The Big Winners In Stimulus Compromise: The Upper-Middle Class

This is somewhat of a digression, but there have been a lot of comments both here & elsewhere that there is too much in the package that is not immediate or "quick enough."

As I like to say, I'm no economist, but it's my understanding that this is intentional. The idea is to get people hiring again, which requires measures now, as well as some elements whose effect might not be felt for 2-3 years. The idea is to give the people who actually hire confidence now, but also confidence for 2-3 years down the road, which will open up much more long-term, permanant hiring.
 
This is somewhat of a digression, but there have been a lot of comments both here & elsewhere that there is too much in the package that is not immediate or "quick enough."

As I like to say, I'm no economist, but it's my understanding that this is intentional. The idea is to get people hiring again, which requires measures now, as well as some elements whose effect might not be felt for 2-3 years. The idea is to give the people who actually hire confidence now, but also confidence for 2-3 years down the road, which will open up much more long-term, permanant hiring.

I suppose its all relative to what people mean by 'fast' or 'quick enough'. Any stimulus designed to create jobs, you are looking at an initial ramp up of at least 6 months. But for infrastructure etc... you are probably looking at closer to 12-18 months before it could be brought up to full speed (at the earliest). Because you have to have the steel, equipment and trained personel spun up first.
 
I think we are pretty much in agreement on the spending side. As for the tax cuts, I also agree that the AMT fix should not be happening in this package as it is not a fast stimulus. As for the rest, I haven't seen exactly what made it out of conference, so really cannot comment too much on it.
But I would say tax cuts to small businesses makes sense here.

I believe the best thing we could do for business large and small is healthcare. Put the entire nation on Medicare and relieve businesses of the burden of healthcare, which would put them on par with their global competitors .. like the auto industry. How many jobs there?

The boon in jobs, innovation, and business would be incredible .. and a real stimulus is bringing America back.
 
I think it's funnier than comical.
Those are not cuts, theres way more welfare than amt help.
It's reductions in the amount of welfare dems wanted to pass out.
what you call a cut is over 100 billion added for poor people.
 
A Better Deal, But Not a New Deal

Prodded by President Obama, leaders of the House and Senate agreed Wednesday afternoon to a new version of the stimulus package that is supposed to jumpstart a sputtering economy.

The agreement restored some of the cuts to school construction and state aids that were made when Senate Democrats capitulated to Republican demands for sharp cuts in actual stimulus spending. It also eliminates some of the tax giveaways inserted by GOP senators, which ran the cost of the Senate bill up to $838 billion.

Still, the new $789 billion measure is a disappointing proposal compared with the with the $819 billion House plan.

The price tags are not the issue.

It all comes down to what the money is spent on.

This remains a compromise agreement that is packed with ill-considered Republican tax schemes.

The latest variation on the stimulus -- which most Americans imagine as a job-creation measure -- includes just $150 billion in spending for infrastructure projects, including transportation initiatives.

That's less than one-fifth of the overall package.

While there is more money for ailing state governments -- which also put people to work -- the allocation has been slashed to $35 billion less than had been proposed by the House.

Some school construction money has been restored, but the latest version of the bill lacks $16 billion that had been proposed for that purpose.

Additionally, according to the New York Times, it "sharply curtailed health care subsidies for the unemployed."

The frankest assessment of the measure as it now stands comes from Iowa Senator Tom Harkin, who says: "I am not happy with it. You are not looking at a happy camper. I mean, they took a lot of stuff out of education. They took it out of health, school construction and they put it more into tax issues."

The Iowa Democrat notes that nine percent of the stimulus bill is now committed to restructuring the alternative minimum tax, a Republican priority that was to be dealt with later this year in a tax bill.

"Why is it in there?" Harkin asked. "It has nothing to do with stimulus. It has nothing to do with recovery. This makes no sense whatsoever."


Harkin's right. Starving stimulus spending in order to pay for tax schemes -- especially when the issues at hand were going to be addressed in short order -- is madness in the midst of an economic crisis.

But that's what you get when too much emphasis is placed on false "bipartisanship" and empty "compromising" at a point when bold leadership and action are needed.


The story of the stimulus fight is not quite finished. This bill will have to make it through the House and Senate one more time.

Most Republicans are still likely to oppose this measure, even though they have defined it to a far greater extent than their minority status would have predicted.

A few progressive Democrats, who fear that this compromise plan is too stingy and misguided to restart the economy, might voice objections as well.

That said, the agreement reached today very probably approximates the legislation that will be signed in short order by President Obama.

If this proves to be the case, America will get a better deal than the Senate was willing to provide. But it won't get the new "New Deal" that Democrats in the House -- led by Appropriations Committee Chair David Obey -- tried to deliver.

If it works, everyone will take credit.

If it fails, the blame will rest with Republicans who demanded compromises and Democrats who agreed to them.
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/stat...tter_deal_but_not_a_new_new_deal?rel=hp_picks
 
I agree that the AMT tax should be addressed, but it should be addressed to stop its declining scale so it doesn't hit people earning 50k. I'm in this upper bracket, but I don't think giving people like me a tax cut is more important than addressing the needs of less fortunate Americans .. which I view as a real stimulus.

I would have much rather seen the plan weighted more towards the bottom.

Additionally, unless one works in construction, how many jobs are there to be had in infrastructure building?
I am very happy that Obama's going to sign this bill. With the fix on the AMT my taxes will be less, and all the public works projects are going to put a demand on my profession unlike that seen since the Big Dig in Boston. I'll get to increase my hour rate by 40 or 50%, and pick and choose through a long list of consulting gigs. With all the bank bailouts they'll be looking at my good credit to lend me boku cash at super low rates, allowing me to refinance my existing real estate investments.

Who knew that a Democrat boondoggle would benefit this ultra-conservative so well? :clink:
 
The first tangible consequence I've read today is that because of the stimulus, Caterpillar is planning to begin rehiring. This is a good start, at least.
 
I believe the best thing we could do for business large and small is healthcare. Put the entire nation on Medicare and relieve businesses of the burden of healthcare, which would put them on par with their global competitors .. like the auto industry. How many jobs there?

The boon in jobs, innovation, and business would be incredible .. and a real stimulus is bringing America back.

If I could pick only one thing for America to accomplish, this would be it.
 
I am very happy that Obama's going to sign this bill. With the fix on the AMT my taxes will be less, and all the public works projects are going to put a demand on my profession unlike that seen since the Big Dig in Boston. I'll get to increase my hour rate by 40 or 50%, and pick and choose through a long list of consulting gigs. With all the bank bailouts they'll be looking at my good credit to lend me boku cash at super low rates, allowing me to refinance my existing real estate investments.

Who knew that a Democrat boondoggle would benefit this ultra-conservative so well? :clink:

Who knew that your benefit was more important than what benefits America?
 
If I could pick only one thing for America to accomplish, this would be it.

Same here my friend.

It's amazing that this isn't even in consideration when there have been studies which clearly demonstrate the benefit to America this would bring.

It would spur nearly three million long-lasting career changing life-supporting jobs and businesses.
 
Detroit would boom under BAC's plan. He should run for office. Fat old white dudes have fucked/Vittered us enough.
 
Detroit would boom under BAC's plan. He should run for office. Fat old white dudes have fucked/Vittered us enough.

Thanks, but no thanks my brother. I'm as close to politics and politicians as I want to get ever again.

But you're right, Detroit would boom, the country would get healthier, and Americans would be freed of devastating medical costs which is the leading cause of bankruptcy.

Today, many Americans aren't even sure they can afford to stay alive.
 
The Big Winners In Stimulus Compromise: The Upper-Middle Class

When President Obama outlined on January 8 the rationale for the economic stimulus bill, "The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act," he clearly identified the men and women most in trouble:

Nearly two million jobs have now been lost, and on Friday we are likely to learn that we lost more jobs last year than at any time since World War II. Just in the past year, another 2.8 million Americans who want and need full-time work have had to settle for part-time jobs.
The House-Senate compromise, however, cuts funds for extended health care coverage for the unemployed; cuts $30 billion in aid to state governments to prevent reductions in social services to the poor and out-of-work; and also cuts a special "Making Work Pay" tax holiday from $500 to $400 for an individual, and from $1,000 to $800 for a couple, for low-to-middle-income workers still hanging on to their jobs

Amid all the cutting, however, one group emerged unscathed: the upper-middle class, the not-quite-super-rich, but certainly not on the ropes. Most of these folks, in terms of income and employment, are what could be called the un-needy, a group clearly distinct from those Obama identified as the core target of the legislation. The "compromise" legislation includes $70 billion, or just under 10 percent of the whole package, to be used expressly to take care of these affluent people.

In fact, these lucky men and women make so much money that they fall into the ever-expanding grasp of the alternative minimum tax (AMT). The AMT was originally designed in 1969 to prevent the nation's millionaires and billionaires from using tax loopholes to pay zero income tax. That year, 155 very wealthy taxpayers paid no federal tax whatsoever. This year, if the law remains as it is currently crafted, the AMT would, through bracket creep, apply to as many as 25 million taxpayers, including those making in the $85,000 to $250,000 range, depending on how many deductions they claim (the more deductions, the more likely the AMT comes into play).

There is a strong case to be made that the AMT was never intended to apply to people in these income categories - for example two public school teachers married to each other -- and Congress in recent years has repeatedly passed temporary one-year "patches" postponing the downward reach of the tax provision.

Some economists argue, however, that patching the AMT is one of the least effective ways for Congress to stimulate the economy and create jobs. As the Huffington Post has reported, the Congressional Budget Office and Brookings-Urban Institute Tax Policy Center have both described the AMT as a poor use of federal dollars.

Why then has Congress added the $70 billion AMT patch to the bill, while cutting other expenditures right and left?

The most obvious answers are 1) the people who make $80,000 to $250,000 are influential and vocal in pressing their complaints to Congress; 2) an AMT-induced tax hike would produce an outcry; 3) and people in this class have become the most contested "swing" voters in elections -- running the gamut from presidential to state legislative elections.

Once these upper-middle-class voters were a reliably Republican constituency, but over the past generation, Democrats have made major inroads, evinced in the success of Bill Clinton, Al Gore, John Kerry and Barack Obama in the well-to-do suburbs of New York, Philadelphia, Boston, and along the entire California coast.

A major consequence is that leaders of both parties are vying intensely for this crucial segment of the electorate -- Republicans to staunch the hemorrhaging, Democrats to speed it up. Thus, the $70 billion AMT patch has become inviolable.

Below are tables illustrating the distributional impact of the AMT patch as calculated by the Brookings-Urban Institute Tax Policy Center:

more at link --
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/11/the-big-winners-in-stimul_n_166192.html

A group most helped by AMT are small business's. Small business's are the bread and butter of job creation in this country.
 
Not a gol derned thing in that package for people like me. Secure savings, no debt.
That's what you get for skipping classes and flipping burgers for a living. You think Obama's going to subsidize that? Heck, no, he wants people to build roads and buildings to name after him, not get "Michelle thighs". I'm in High Cotton now. Break out the suds! :clink:
 
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