The Big Winners In Stimulus Compromise: The Upper-Middle Class

blackascoal

The Force is With Me
The Big Winners In Stimulus Compromise: The Upper-Middle Class

When President Obama outlined on January 8 the rationale for the economic stimulus bill, "The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act," he clearly identified the men and women most in trouble:

Nearly two million jobs have now been lost, and on Friday we are likely to learn that we lost more jobs last year than at any time since World War II. Just in the past year, another 2.8 million Americans who want and need full-time work have had to settle for part-time jobs.
The House-Senate compromise, however, cuts funds for extended health care coverage for the unemployed; cuts $30 billion in aid to state governments to prevent reductions in social services to the poor and out-of-work; and also cuts a special "Making Work Pay" tax holiday from $500 to $400 for an individual, and from $1,000 to $800 for a couple, for low-to-middle-income workers still hanging on to their jobs

Amid all the cutting, however, one group emerged unscathed: the upper-middle class, the not-quite-super-rich, but certainly not on the ropes. Most of these folks, in terms of income and employment, are what could be called the un-needy, a group clearly distinct from those Obama identified as the core target of the legislation. The "compromise" legislation includes $70 billion, or just under 10 percent of the whole package, to be used expressly to take care of these affluent people.

In fact, these lucky men and women make so much money that they fall into the ever-expanding grasp of the alternative minimum tax (AMT). The AMT was originally designed in 1969 to prevent the nation's millionaires and billionaires from using tax loopholes to pay zero income tax. That year, 155 very wealthy taxpayers paid no federal tax whatsoever. This year, if the law remains as it is currently crafted, the AMT would, through bracket creep, apply to as many as 25 million taxpayers, including those making in the $85,000 to $250,000 range, depending on how many deductions they claim (the more deductions, the more likely the AMT comes into play).

There is a strong case to be made that the AMT was never intended to apply to people in these income categories - for example two public school teachers married to each other -- and Congress in recent years has repeatedly passed temporary one-year "patches" postponing the downward reach of the tax provision.

Some economists argue, however, that patching the AMT is one of the least effective ways for Congress to stimulate the economy and create jobs. As the Huffington Post has reported, the Congressional Budget Office and Brookings-Urban Institute Tax Policy Center have both described the AMT as a poor use of federal dollars.

Why then has Congress added the $70 billion AMT patch to the bill, while cutting other expenditures right and left?

The most obvious answers are 1) the people who make $80,000 to $250,000 are influential and vocal in pressing their complaints to Congress; 2) an AMT-induced tax hike would produce an outcry; 3) and people in this class have become the most contested "swing" voters in elections -- running the gamut from presidential to state legislative elections.

Once these upper-middle-class voters were a reliably Republican constituency, but over the past generation, Democrats have made major inroads, evinced in the success of Bill Clinton, Al Gore, John Kerry and Barack Obama in the well-to-do suburbs of New York, Philadelphia, Boston, and along the entire California coast.

A major consequence is that leaders of both parties are vying intensely for this crucial segment of the electorate -- Republicans to staunch the hemorrhaging, Democrats to speed it up. Thus, the $70 billion AMT patch has become inviolable.

Below are tables illustrating the distributional impact of the AMT patch as calculated by the Brookings-Urban Institute Tax Policy Center:

more at link --
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/11/the-big-winners-in-stimul_n_166192.html
 
I'm not dissing you or the post, but I really think this is the kind of bill - with everything but the kitchen sink in it - where everyone can find something wrong with it.

This article says it favors the upper middle class. Others here & elsewhere say it's a welfare bill, and focuses on tax cuts for people who don't even pay taxes.

The fact is, there are elements of both in the bill, but neither defines the whole package.
 
I'm not dissing you or the post, but I really think this is the kind of bill - with everything but the kitchen sink in it - where everyone can find something wrong with it.

This article says it favors the upper middle class. Others here & elsewhere say it's a welfare bill, and focuses on tax cuts for people who don't even pay taxes.

The fact is, there are elements of both in the bill, but neither defines the whole package.

That is much to rational of a line of thought Lorax. You will be crucified for it I am sure.
 
BAC.... take a look at the idiocy of the AMT tax. It is bullshit that anyone earning $80-250k should have to pay this excess tax. People like you continue to shrug it off even as it continues to hit people earning less and less each year. Given the way it is currently set up, it could easily start hitting people earning $50k within a few years. It needs to be addressed.

That said, does it need to be in a stimulus bill.... no, not really. I think the bulk of this money should go out in the form of

1) infrastructure buildout (that needs to happen anyway) as that provides jobs in a loose labor market

2) Tax cuts/incentives to small business owners

3) extended unemployment benes
 
Side note... we are not even at the unemployment rates seen in the early 90's recession. The only recent recession that had lower unemployment was the 2000-2001 recession.

The early 90's, early 80's and the 73/74 recessions all had higher unemployment.

Looking at unemployment in terms of number of jobs lost is fine, as long as you adjust for population and workforce size changes.
 
I'm not dissing you or the post, but I really think this is the kind of bill - with everything but the kitchen sink in it - where everyone can find something wrong with it.

This article says it favors the upper middle class. Others here & elsewhere say it's a welfare bill, and focuses on tax cuts for people who don't even pay taxes.

The fact is, there are elements of both in the bill, but neither defines the whole package.

I don't disagree with your thought that there is something for everyone to criticize .. however, by the numbers, it's obvious that the biggest winners were the upper middle class, who most likely already have jobs, not average Americans out of work, out of a home.
 
I don't disagree with your thought that there is something for everyone to criticize .. however, by the numbers, it's obvious that the biggest winners were the upper middle class, who most likely already have jobs, not average Americans out of work, out of a home.

Perhaps if the focus is narrowed to the tax aspects of the bill. However, the main focus of the bill is about both creating & saving jobs, and the vast majority of jobs that will be saved or created fall pretty squarely in the middle class.
 
BAC.... take a look at the idiocy of the AMT tax. It is bullshit that anyone earning $80-250k should have to pay this excess tax. People like you continue to shrug it off even as it continues to hit people earning less and less each year. Given the way it is currently set up, it could easily start hitting people earning $50k within a few years. It needs to be addressed.

That said, does it need to be in a stimulus bill.... no, not really. I think the bulk of this money should go out in the form of

1) infrastructure buildout (that needs to happen anyway) as that provides jobs in a loose labor market

2) Tax cuts/incentives to small business owners

3) extended unemployment benes

I agree that the AMT tax should be addressed, but it should be addressed to stop its declining scale so it doesn't hit people earning 50k. I'm in this upper bracket, but I don't think giving people like me a tax cut is more important than addressing the needs of less fortunate Americans .. which I view as a real stimulus.

I would have much rather seen the plan weighted more towards the bottom.

Additionally, unless one works in construction, how many jobs are there to be had in infrastructure building?
 
Last edited:
Perhaps if the focus is narrowed to the tax aspects of the bill. However, the main focus of the bill is about both creating & saving jobs, and the vast majority of jobs that will be saved or created fall pretty squarely in the middle class.

Perhaps you're right .. that remains to be seen.

It just seems to me that with the trillions of dollars poured into the banking system to rescue them from their own greed and with billions of dollars in tax cuts, helping out those most in need appears to be nothing more than an afterthought.
 
I agree that the AMT tax should be addressed, but it should be addressed to stop its declining scale so it doesn't hit people earning 50k. I'm in this upper bracket, but I don't think giving people like me a tax cut is more important than addressing the needs of less fortunate Americans .. which I view as a real stimulus.

I would have much rather seen the plan weighted more towards the bottom.

Additionally, unless one works in construction, how many jobs are there to be had in infrastructure building?

I agree that it should be addressed to stop this downward decline and as I said I also agree it didn't need to be done as a part of this bill.

As for the jobs, if you are out of a job... you retrain to fit the labor demands. You put the skilled workers on the bridges etc... you put the manual labor on the road construction crews. Digging ditches to connect solar, wind farms to existing power grids etc... there are a lot that any of us could do... and I guarantee if I were to lose my job, I would be in the front of the line for one of those manual labor jobs.

One of the mindsets we have to get around in this country is thinking that we are somehow entitled to work at the same company or same line of work for our entire careers. One of our biggest weaknesses is the unwillingness of so many people to retrain for a different career. Even if it is a short term change. Too many people sit on their ass waiting for their old type of job at their old salary to come back around.
 
Perhaps you're right .. that remains to be seen.

It just seems to me that with the trillions of dollars poured into the banking system to rescue them from their own greed and with billions of dollars in tax cuts, helping out those most in need appears to be nothing more than an afterthought.

I have not seen the compromise version, so time will tell... but from what I was reading of the House version, there seemed to be a lot in there for food stamp increases, welfare increases, unemployment increases etc...

Not to mention the attempts to create jobs... that will help the lower and middle classes.
 
The Big Winners In Stimulus Compromise: The Upper-Middle Class

When President Obama outlined on January 8 the rationale for the economic stimulus bill, "The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act," he clearly identified the men and women most in trouble:

Nearly two million jobs have now been lost, and on Friday we are likely to learn that we lost more jobs last year than at any time since World War II. Just in the past year, another 2.8 million Americans who want and need full-time work have had to settle for part-time jobs.
The House-Senate compromise, however, cuts funds for extended health care coverage for the unemployed; cuts $30 billion in aid to state governments to prevent reductions in social services to the poor and out-of-work; and also cuts a special "Making Work Pay" tax holiday from $500 to $400 for an individual, and from $1,000 to $800 for a couple, for low-to-middle-income workers still hanging on to their jobs

Amid all the cutting, however, one group emerged unscathed: the upper-middle class, the not-quite-super-rich, but certainly not on the ropes. Most of these folks, in terms of income and employment, are what could be called the un-needy, a group clearly distinct from those Obama identified as the core target of the legislation. The "compromise" legislation includes $70 billion, or just under 10 percent of the whole package, to be used expressly to take care of these affluent people.

In fact, these lucky men and women make so much money that they fall into the ever-expanding grasp of the alternative minimum tax (AMT). The AMT was originally designed in 1969 to prevent the nation's millionaires and billionaires from using tax loopholes to pay zero income tax. That year, 155 very wealthy taxpayers paid no federal tax whatsoever. This year, if the law remains as it is currently crafted, the AMT would, through bracket creep, apply to as many as 25 million taxpayers, including those making in the $85,000 to $250,000 range, depending on how many deductions they claim (the more deductions, the more likely the AMT comes into play).

There is a strong case to be made that the AMT was never intended to apply to people in these income categories - for example two public school teachers married to each other -- and Congress in recent years has repeatedly passed temporary one-year "patches" postponing the downward reach of the tax provision.

Some economists argue, however, that patching the AMT is one of the least effective ways for Congress to stimulate the economy and create jobs. As the Huffington Post has reported, the Congressional Budget Office and Brookings-Urban Institute Tax Policy Center have both described the AMT as a poor use of federal dollars.

Why then has Congress added the $70 billion AMT patch to the bill, while cutting other expenditures right and left?

The most obvious answers are 1) the people who make $80,000 to $250,000 are influential and vocal in pressing their complaints to Congress; 2) an AMT-induced tax hike would produce an outcry; 3) and people in this class have become the most contested "swing" voters in elections -- running the gamut from presidential to state legislative elections.

Once these upper-middle-class voters were a reliably Republican constituency, but over the past generation, Democrats have made major inroads, evinced in the success of Bill Clinton, Al Gore, John Kerry and Barack Obama in the well-to-do suburbs of New York, Philadelphia, Boston, and along the entire California coast.

A major consequence is that leaders of both parties are vying intensely for this crucial segment of the electorate -- Republicans to staunch the hemorrhaging, Democrats to speed it up. Thus, the $70 billion AMT patch has become inviolable.

Below are tables illustrating the distributional impact of the AMT patch as calculated by the Brookings-Urban Institute Tax Policy Center:

more at link --
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/11/the-big-winners-in-stimul_n_166192.html

As a member of that class I find it extraordinary that I'm finally getting some representation. For years the Republican have kissed ass on the rich plutocrats while the Democrats worshipped at the alter of the social welfare state.

It's about time some politician figured out who it is that makes this country run.
 
I agree that it should be addressed to stop this downward decline and as I said I also agree it didn't need to be done as a part of this bill.

As for the jobs, if you are out of a job... you retrain to fit the labor demands. You put the skilled workers on the bridges etc... you put the manual labor on the road construction crews. Digging ditches to connect solar, wind farms to existing power grids etc... there are a lot that any of us could do... and I guarantee if I were to lose my job, I would be in the front of the line for one of those manual labor jobs.

One of the mindsets we have to get around in this country is thinking that we are somehow entitled to work at the same company or same line of work for our entire careers. One of our biggest weaknesses is the unwillingness of so many people to retrain for a different career. Even if it is a short term change. Too many people sit on their ass waiting for their old type of job at their old salary to come back around.

I couldn't agree with you more .. but how many ditch digging jobs do you think will be available?

How many women can dig ditches?

From my perspective increasing healthcare would be a better solution. Not only would there be the building of new hospitals, clinics, and facilities, but a boon in the healthcare industry would spur education and technology and open opportunites for healthcare professionals that would encourage innovation and businesses, including small businesses.

We'll see how this stimulus plays out .. hopefully for the best for all America.
 
BAC.... take a look at the idiocy of the AMT tax. It is bullshit that anyone earning $80-250k should have to pay this excess tax. People like you continue to shrug it off even as it continues to hit people earning less and less each year. Given the way it is currently set up, it could easily start hitting people earning $50k within a few years. It needs to be addressed.

In my opinion the AMT needs to be taken back to where it was inflation-adjusted when it was put in place, and automatically adjusted to inflation every year after. Actually, every bracket should be adjusted to inflation.
 
The cut that's going to hurt most is cuts to state budgets. Whoever did that should be slapped. It's not an attempt at logic, or putting the money where it needs to be, it's just shameless centrism for centrisms sake.
 
As a member of that class I find it extraordinary that I'm finally getting some representation. For years the Republican have kissed ass on the rich plutocrats while the Democrats worshipped at the alter of the social welfare state.

It's about time some politician figured out who it is that makes this country run.

As a member of that class who can look around and see how many less fortunate Americans are suffering then comparing their position with my own .. I don't need a tax cut. Republicans have been kissing the ass of people in our bracket for years, democrats are playing catch up.

Emphasis on this group has less to do with "who makes the country run" as it does with the politics of it .. as stated in the article.

A bigger tax cut to me does not mean I'm going to spend it .. there's nothing I need to buy outside of food, gas, and maintenance. It's not going to affect my business at all.

Any new money will be hoarded for possible leaner times.
 
I couldn't agree with you more .. but how many ditch digging jobs do you think will be available?

How many women can dig ditches?

From my perspective increasing healthcare would be a better solution. Not only would there be the building of new hospitals, clinics, and facilities, but a boon in the healthcare industry would spur education and technology and open opportunites for healthcare professionals that would encourage innovation and businesses, including small businesses.

We'll see how this stimulus plays out .. hopefully for the best for all America.

Our infrastructure has been neglected for decades. The bridges, roads, dams, levees alone could put millions to work.... When you count the ramp up in business for companies that make the equipment, steel, cement etc... that would go into the infrastructure play.

I do not disagree with improving/adding to the healthcare infrastructure, as it would have a similar benefit. Though I think there is currently a shortage of healthcare workers (could be wrong on that) so we would have to overcome that shortage.

Side note... I think there are a lot of women who could dig ditches should they choose. While it is not typically a profession they go into, if it is that or lose their home/ go on welfare etc... I think you will see them jump at the opportunity.
 
In my opinion the AMT needs to be taken back to where it was inflation-adjusted when it was put in place, and automatically adjusted to inflation every year after. Actually, every bracket should be adjusted to inflation.

Holy crap... a sane comment from Water... AND one that I completely agree with.
 
Our infrastructure has been neglected for decades. The bridges, roads, dams, levees alone could put millions to work.... When you count the ramp up in business for companies that make the equipment, steel, cement etc... that would go into the infrastructure play.

I do not disagree with improving/adding to the healthcare infrastructure, as it would have a similar benefit. Though I think there is currently a shortage of healthcare workers (could be wrong on that) so we would have to overcome that shortage.

Side note... I think there are a lot of women who could dig ditches should they choose. While it is not typically a profession they go into, if it is that or lose their home/ go on welfare etc... I think you will see them jump at the opportunity.

I don't disagree that our crumbling infrastructure needs to be addressed, nor do I disagree that it will create lots of jobs. My argument is that much more needed to be done towards creating real stimulus and jobs. We could have done healthcare AND infrastructure repair AND education all at the same time, particularly with less emphasis on tax cuts which make up a whopping 40% of the plan.
 
I don't disagree that our crumbling infrastructure needs to be addressed, nor do I disagree that it will create lots of jobs. My argument is that much more needed to be done towards creating real stimulus and jobs. We could have done healthcare AND infrastructure repair AND education all at the same time, particularly with less emphasis on tax cuts which make up a whopping 40% of the plan.

I think we are pretty much in agreement on the spending side. As for the tax cuts, I also agree that the AMT fix should not be happening in this package as it is not a fast stimulus. As for the rest, I haven't seen exactly what made it out of conference, so really cannot comment too much on it.
But I would say tax cuts to small businesses makes sense here.
 
Back
Top