That hoary chestnut of the 97% consensus again

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Our resident 'scientific expert' Evince has brought up the 97% consensus claim yet again, it is amazing how hoary old myths get propogated and take on a life of their own.

It is a strange claim to make. Consensus or near-consensus is not a scientific argument. Indeed, the heroes in the history of science are those who challenged the prevailing consensus and convincingly demonstrated that everyone thought wrong. Such heroes are even better appreciated if they take on not only the scientific establishment but the worldly and godly authorities as well. Well known examples of this include the challenges to the theory that Earth was the center of the universe, that infection was spread by surgeons who didn’t wash their hands, that the Earth’s crust had plates that moved, and that gastric ulcers were caused by a bacterial infection, and not stress as physicians once widely believed.

There was once a consensus among astronomers that the heavens were static, that the boundaries of the universe constant. But in 1929, Hubble observed his red shift among the stars, overturning that consensus. In 1904, there was a consensus among physicists that Newtonian mechanics was, at last, the final word in explaining the workings of the [universe]. All that was left to do was to mop up the details. But in 1905, Einstein and a few others soon convinced them that this view was false. Consensus can also cause disaster, as NASA proved with a consensus of management that solid rocket booster O-rings affected by unusual cold weren’t worth worrying about or that a foam strike during launch wouldn’t damage the wing of the space shuttle and were “not even worth mentioning”.

Clearly, the power of thousands in agreement on scientific consensus can’t stand up to stubborn facts and that is the self-correcting process of science which sometimes works slowly, other times dramatically quickly. Given that consensus by itself means nothing in the face of such facts, it seems to me that consensus is just another manifestation of herd-like thinking as illustrated by Mackay.

First published in 1841, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds is often cited as the best book ever written about market psychology. Author Charles Mackay chronicles many celebrated financial manias, or ‘bubbles’, which demonstrate his assertion that “every age has its peculiar folly; some scheme, project, or fantasy into which it plunges, spurred on by the love of gain, the necessity of excitement, or the mere force of imitation.” This still holds fast today! Among the alleged ‘bubbles’ described by Mackay is the infamous Dutch tulip mania, the South Sea Company bubble and the Mississippi Company bubble. And what do bubbles do? Why they burst of course.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/06/02/the-madness-of-97-98-consensus-herds/
 
In the same vein, here is an example of how bullshit stories are spread by vested interests.

Follow up: the bogus ‘North Pole becomes a lake’ story

Posted on August 10, 2013 by Anthony Watts
Remember this Associated Press before and after image that purportedly showed the North Pole turning into a lake due to “global warming”?



This was the day Brad Johnson of “Forecast the Facts” (a political group affiliated with the Center for American Progress and paid to harass TV weathercasters and meteorologists who don’t share their melting world view) made himself look like the complete idiot we know him to be. Observe the propaganda they sent around:



Note that WUWT published on why this imagery has no scientific merit, and the principal scientist issued a statement saying that it wasn’t anything out of the ordinary.

Even AP saw they’d screwed up and issued a retraction:

Title :
ELIMINATION North Pole Lake
Caption : EDITORS, PHOTO EDITORS, AND PHOTO LIBRARIANS – PLEASE ELIMINATE AP PHOTO NY109 THAT WAS SENT ON SATURDAY, JULY 27, 2013. THE CAPTION INACCURATELY STATED THAT ‘THE SHALLOW MELTWATER LAKE IS OCCURRING DUE TO AN UNUSUALLY WARM PERIOD.’ IN FACT, THE WATER ACCUMULATES IN THIS WAY EVERY SUMMER. IN ADDITION, THE IMAGES DO NOT NECESSARILY SHOW CONDITIONS AT THE NORTH POLE, BECAUSE THE WEATHER BUOY CARRYING THE CAMERA USED BY THE NORTH POLE ENVIRONMENTAL OBSERVATORY HAS DRIFTED HUNDREDS OF MILES FROM ITS ORIGINAL POSITION, WHICH WAS A FEW DOZEN MILES FROM THE POLE- This frame grab provided by NOAA shows images from the wide-angle camera trained on a weather buoy maintained by the North Pole Environmental Observatory at the North Pole. The top image is a June 7, 2013 frame grab. The bottom image is a July 25, 2013 frame grab. (AP Photo/NOAA)

Source: http://foto.agerpres.ro/index.php?i=7147048

Will Brad Johnson and “Forecast the Facts” issue a retraction? Doubtful, because to do so would highlight their own stupidity disguised as paid agenda.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/08/10/follow-up-the-bogus-north-pole-becomes-a-lake-story/
 
Lol... I saw the phrase "hoary chestnut" I was afraid Tom posted a pic of himself topless grinning.
 
Our resident 'scientific expert' Evince has brought up the 97% consensus claim yet again, it is amazing how hoary old myths get propogated and take on a life of their own.


http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/06/02/the-madness-of-97-98-consensus-herds/
I see, so are you stating that a consensus among scientist within a field about a given topic within their field isn't scientific? How is that so?

you're argument is a logical fallacy of the type called a "red herring". What in the world does it have to do with YOUR point of view and how does it support it? It doesn't. Discrediting someone else, don't make you right either. Building a consensus about any given topic in science is hard to do unless their is a tremendous amount of fact that has been studied, evaluated, modeled, tested, published, peer reviewed and here's the ringer "Independently verified.". Then to top that all off all scientist assume that ALL SCIENTIFIC KNOWLEDGE IS TENTATIVE. How does building a consensus about the factual nature of something have to do with still understanding that your knowledge on that topic is tentative? It simply doesn't.

In fact I find most of the arguments that oppose the findings of climatologist often arise to these kinds of logical fallacies of ad hominem and red herrings, as well as, some really funny conspiracy theories that are literally cases of psychological projection. In fact, virtually everything I've read in opposition the current consensus on climate change is most often derived from interest driven politics with little to any sound science backing it, where as, there is a vast amount of peer reviewed data and common sense supporting anthroprogenic climate change.

In fact, a good title for your article would be "I'm the pot calling the kettle black.".
 
I see, so are you stating that a consensus among scientist within a field about a given topic within their field isn't scientific? How is that so?

you're argument is a logical fallacy of the type called a "red herring". What in the world does it have to do with YOUR point of view and how does it support it? It doesn't. Discrediting someone else, don't make you right either. Building a consensus about any given topic in science is hard to do unless their is a tremendous amount of fact that has been studied, evaluated, modeled, tested, published, peer reviewed and here's the ringer "Independently verified.". Then to top that all off all scientist assume that ALL SCIENTIFIC KNOWLEDGE IS TENTATIVE. How does building a consensus about the factual nature of something have to do with still understanding that your knowledge on that topic is tentative? It simply doesn't.

In fact I find most of the arguments that oppose the findings of climatologist often arise to these kinds of logical fallacies of ad hominem and red herrings, as well as, some really funny conspiracy theories that are literally cases of psychological projection. In fact, virtually everything I've read in opposition the current consensus on climate change is most often derived from interest driven politics with little to any sound science backing it, where as, there is a vast amount of peer reviewed data and common sense supporting anthroprogenic climate change.

In fact, a good title for your article would be "I'm the pot calling the kettle black.".

I am saying that just by declaring something to have a consensus does not, of itself, constitute a scientific argument. The other point, which you seemed to have missed, is that the 97% consensus declared by John Cook et al. was only arrived at by making some wildly invalid assumptions. In fact, 34.6% of papers that should have been rated as neutral were actually rated as non-neutral. Of those mis-rated papers, 99.4% were rated as endorsements.

I think that I have established my view by now, it's not from the want of stating it anyway. I believe that forcing effect due to CO2 has some effect however I do not see any substantive evidence that it is the main driver. I know that the forcing is supposedly governed by the equation below which being logarithmic means that the increased concentrations have a progressively diminishing warming effect. I also know that there hasn't been any statistically significant increase in the last 16 years which is one reason why so many ex-NASA personnel complained bitterly about Hansen bringing the organisation into disrepute. Even Professor Phil Jones, director of the CRU at the East Anglia has been forced to admit that there hasn't been any statistically measurable increase.

74945338ec357d4a68e5f5356f8f19a0.png


C is the CO[SUB]2[/SUB] concentration in parts per million by volume and C[SUB]0[/SUB] is the reference concentration.

I ascribe to the view of Jasper Kirkby and the CLOUD team at CERN that much of the warming can be explained by an, as yet, unidentified organic aerosol(s) which will be revealed in time after rigorous experimentation.

http://www.livescience.com/15733-mystery-ingredient-influences-cloud-formation.html
 
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Little red bricks heaved like manhole covers are still just imaginary little red bricks.


Sceince is not on your side
 
Little red bricks heaved like manhole covers are still just imaginary little red bricks.





Sceince is not on your side
Do you seriously expect anybody on here to believe that you have any grasp of the science? You can't even spell the word correctly!!
 
hahahahahahahahahahahahah


a typo means the science isn't real.

wow your really desperate now huh
 
tell us what your degree says about those little red bricks you keep heaving like man hole covers?
 
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