Fentoine Lum
Verified User
Did I mention over 800 military bases and installations across the globe? That's where all the money goes which is resulting in the hollowing out of your society.
Texas man explodes with rage at Confederate monument protestors
- Thread starter Guno צְבִי
- Start date
Did I mention over 800 military bases and installations across the globe? That's where all the money goes which is resulting in the hollowing out of your society.
you did. but 13,000 troops in Afghan. are not where the concentrated forces and money are. It's NATO instead.
If we were smart we'd try to get along with Putin instead of demonizing da Russians.
We have greatly escalated NATO-
(and not just NATO expansion -but the forces in those states i.e. European Reassurance Initiative etc. as well)
-because of our Russiaphobia.
And that's not to mention sanctioning/escalating against Putin just drives him into Xi's military/economic partnership.
The real long term cost of the deep state creeps is the Russiaphobia they ginned up.
Those consequences will be felt long after Trump
Fentoine Lum
Verified User
This society will be in endless war mode until it goes down, our economic system depends upon it. We war for capitalism.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Flash,
Hey, those are all great arguments for other issues. And here they only amount to so much moving of the goal posts.
Legal peaceful protests at this monument are appropriate, letters to editors, etc. Nobody who puts up a monument like this should expect it to be universally welcomed. I have no problem with the existence of a monument. There should be a place for that. Some of these statues are being moved to cemeteries. That's OK. But to have this thing right by a major highway intersection where everybody is going to be seeing it, that's an affront. People might want to consider creating some legislation to prevent that. I would laugh if the local community decided to erect walls along the highways so this thing could not be seen from the highway.
We want everybody else to know that if they consider putting something like this in the public's face, they will be getting negative feedback from the public.
Hey, those are all great arguments for other issues. And here they only amount to so much moving of the goal posts.
Legal peaceful protests at this monument are appropriate, letters to editors, etc. Nobody who puts up a monument like this should expect it to be universally welcomed. I have no problem with the existence of a monument. There should be a place for that. Some of these statues are being moved to cemeteries. That's OK. But to have this thing right by a major highway intersection where everybody is going to be seeing it, that's an affront. People might want to consider creating some legislation to prevent that. I would laugh if the local community decided to erect walls along the highways so this thing could not be seen from the highway.
We want everybody else to know that if they consider putting something like this in the public's face, they will be getting negative feedback from the public.
Airstrip One
Completely Effed
Pro-CSA apologists are always telling me that the Confederacy was fighting against tyranny and constitutional violations. What was it doing instituting a draft? This debate of America against the Confederacy should be an easy one, given that it's typically waged amongst Americans, who claim to be patriots, and to love their country more than its enemies.
Fighting against a communist regime, however ill-advisedly and badly planned, is always inherently noble, given the opposing ideology.
I said legal, peaceful protests are appropriate. I said yelling and screaming at the people who constructed the monument is not productive and is probably harassment or intimidation. Actually, there is seldom anybody at the site. If you drove by your would not know it had anything to do with the Confederacy (until they recently put up flags around the columns representing ? regiments?).
I don't think legislation would work since there would be no legitimate reason for such a law. I don't think a wall would work since the Interstate 10 overpass is over the road (MLK) that passes under the overpass which the monument sits.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Flash,
We are in agreement.
Also agreed.
I'm not sure what kind of legislation might work or not, but if there is something, it should be talked about. If not now then when?
Shouldn't be too difficult to do a wall. Just needs to be a high enough barrier to obscure the view from vehicle windows. The public can do whatever it wants. If everybody decided something was offensive enough they could simply reroute the highways or rebuild them even higher so the monument ends up below the view of traffic. Just depends on if the outcry is strong enough.
We are in agreement.
Also agreed.
I'm not sure what kind of legislation might work or not, but if there is something, it should be talked about. If not now then when?
Shouldn't be too difficult to do a wall. Just needs to be a high enough barrier to obscure the view from vehicle windows. The public can do whatever it wants. If everybody decided something was offensive enough they could simply reroute the highways or rebuild them even higher so the monument ends up below the view of traffic. Just depends on if the outcry is strong enough.
Claiming to be fighting against communism is about as legitimate as those claiming the Confederates were fighting against tyranny--propaganda necessary to make the population want to fight the evil enemy. Neither are noble causes unless attacked or defending another nation against attack. Most foreign policy actions by communist nations have little to do with the communist ideology.
Legislation or a wall is just an attempt to censor free speech you oppose--both probably unconstitutional and contrary to the values of a free nation. Can we legislate or block a billboard that says "Vote Hillary" or Trump?
The city did look into zoning.
Airstrip One
Completely Effed
Actually, the Confederates never claimed they were fighting against tyranny. Along with state's rights, that argument was made long after by apologists. The CSA was very clear that it's reason for being—and for fighting—was to preserve slavery.
Would you say that swallowing-up Eastern Europe and forcing communist party rule upon each nation was about something other than communism? Everywhere the Marxist ideology has ever taken hold has resulted in mass murder, so, there was an inherent nobility in confronting it. It's why I am as confrontational to Marxist posters as I am with Nazis (albeit mostly trolls).
I think it was more about expanding slavery than preserving it since there were no efforts to abolish it with serious chance of passage.
Swallowing up Eastern Europe was an expansion of Russian influence to build a buffer after Germany's invasion. We were stopping Russian expansion, not communism, since Soviet foreign policy was essentially the same before and after communism. We would have tried to stop that expansion even if the Soviet Union had not adopted the communist ideology. Countries that became communist had a history of authoritarianism and totalitarianism and mass murder long before communism.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Flash,
It wouldn't be the first community to take measures to deal with a public eyesore. It's really up to the public. If enough of the public doesn't want it, something will be done.
Look. This guy who built it. He could have put it anywhere. It could be located in a private place, open to the public that wants to see it, but not sanctioned by the community.
Some consider it offensive. It's purposely placed to be 'in your face.' Many will consider it a monument to racism or slavery. If people don't want it, they shouldn't have that kind of thing forced on them. That's not right. And it is particularly offensive that it is placed near MLK Blvd.
If the public doesn't want to have it right there in plain sight, they shouldn't have to.
It wouldn't be the first community to take measures to deal with a public eyesore. It's really up to the public. If enough of the public doesn't want it, something will be done.
Look. This guy who built it. He could have put it anywhere. It could be located in a private place, open to the public that wants to see it, but not sanctioned by the community.
Some consider it offensive. It's purposely placed to be 'in your face.' Many will consider it a monument to racism or slavery. If people don't want it, they shouldn't have that kind of thing forced on them. That's not right. And it is particularly offensive that it is placed near MLK Blvd.
If the public doesn't want to have it right there in plain sight, they shouldn't have to.
Airstrip One
Completely Effed
One of the knocks on communist ideology, is that it has accomplished exactly nothing other than mass murder. Liberalism, for all of its practitioners faults, has produced a Western world that is full of richness.
The CSA, being southern, handled slavery as stupidly as one could expect. The north had been offering constitutional protections of slavery in the south. The southern perspective was that slavery needed to expand in order to survive, but, by seceding, they could never hope to expand it into the Western territories. By seceding, and then subsequently attacking America, the south brought about the only means possible means to abolish slavery outright at that moment in time.
That is the purpose of the 1st Amendment, so the majority cannot deprive an unpopular minority of basic constitutional rights.
After 9-11 Muslims were unpopular and many wanted to limit their speech, many wanted to segregate blacks or prevent them from voting, laws sought to prevent free speech by communists or those seen as subversive. The Constitution protected the rights of these groups and should protect the buy who built the monument. Because we find it offensive does not give us the right to deprive him of his rights. We all have things forced on us we find offensive.
Our freedoms outweigh any attempt by others to decide what we are allowed to see because it is offensive. No doubt somebody will accuse me of being pro-slavery or pro-Confederate because my support for civil liberties.
I wasn't attempt to defend or express any sympathy toward communism. My point was that any country that became communist had a history of authoritarian or totalitarian governments. I don't think communism was imposed on any country that had any level of freedom.
Fighting for the "freedom" of South Vietnam (or Iraq) was useful propaganda for American public opinion. The U. S. has often resorted to a moralistic theme to justify war because of fear Americans won't support something just because it is in our national interest.
Fentoine Lum
Verified User
The U. S. has often resorted to a moralistic theme to justify war because of fear Americans won't support something just because it is not in our national interest, but rather in the interest of the Wall Street/donor/"job creator" class.
Our last national interest foray was WWII.
I think the "munitions makers" argument lost any credibility after WWI (still popular in Marxist college classrooms). War is not good for the economy and not supported by Wall Street or most American corporations. If they wanted more government money it would be much more popular to push for infrastructure projects or other government programs that pump up corporate profits-food stamps, Medicare, Medicaid, job training, educational funding.....
Airstrip One
Completely Effed
Just as in post-WWI Russia and postwar Korea, there did exist a republic in Vietnam. It was poorly set-up, and ineptly run, of course. As I stated before, there is always an inherent nobility in confronting communism. There is also a moral imperative not to waste the lives of your own people in the process, along with the national treasury and the public trust. We blundered early on by attempting to prop-up a failed republic, along with a crony head-of-state. We made a similar mistake when we helped the Brits topple the democratic government in Iran, out of fear that socialism would take hold. We are still paying for that mistake.
Fentoine Lum
Verified User
Your economic system cannot support itself without endless generational war now. Watch.
That is silly. The economy functions much better without war and there is nothing about our economy that needs war any more than any other economy. Most business and military leaders usually oppose going to war.