Joe Capitalist
Racism is a disease
So, you DON'T think Tesla is a racist company? Or do you?
Tesla is attracting more and more Republicans. MAGA wets panties.
- Thread starter Joe Capitalist
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So, you DON'T think Tesla is a racist company? Or do you?
cawacko
Well-known member
I don't work for Tesla and don't closely know anyone who works there so I can't speak to the company from that perspective. Do I think it possible for Tesla to be a great company and have some issues with race? Yes. Do I think it possible some of the employees could be exaggerating their claims? Yes.
I know you're passionate about Tesla and thus the desire to defend them. Nothing wrong with that at all. But the sake of discussion I offer this. The black and brown argument will be what they claim is happening at Tesla is happening at many businesses across the country and has for as long as this country has existed. Thus those denying it exists or are defending the businesses (or need a court judgement to believe it) are displaying white privilege.
I'm not saying I'm supporting that position but that's the argument given (and you saw what the columnist said in the article I posted earlier).
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Joe Capitalist
Racism is a disease
So why did you so passionately say: "Tesla is a racist company that doesn't pay taxes."
And just a note, I don't defend racist hiring practices. I defend the truth. I saw nothing in your article that proved Tesla is a 'racist company'. Saying it doesn't make it so.
I thought that was the reason for the OP when I saw the thread title.
Tesla can thank Pedo Joe for his intentional blinders where it comes to them in the EV discussion.
Biden has ignored Tesla in favor of chatting up GM, Ford etc because Tesla is non-union. Oddly enough, this is considered an big plus for conservatives.
And Tesla seems to be driving the hype on innovation and making itself a new wave blue chip stock.
Monad Portal
Was it me?
dems do that because they think electricity comes from the electricity fairy and that they're saving the world.
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cawacko
Well-known member
I made that response specifically to Jarod in context to his post about liberals supporting progressive policy.
I personally don't think Tesla, Apple, Google, J.P. Morgan etc. are racist companies. I'm not naïve and think they can't have racial issues at the firm but I don't believe them to be fundamentally racist. But I'm also a white male Republican. The claim that the company is racist is from the left. So again, within the context of a partisan discussion (to Jarod) from a liberal perspective Tesla is a racist company based on the details laid out in the lawsuit and that they don't hire (enough) black workers.
Is it the left that is claiming Telsa's employment practices are racist, or is it former Telsa employees stating this?
Even rightys are figuring out that electric cars are the future. I have not noticed gas prices except as I drive by gas station signs. You do not want gas prices determined in banking cartels to hold power over your economic life. EVs are better cars with far fewer moving parts and less maintenance, besides not running on gas. Some are quite cheap. https://www.edmunds.com/electric-car/articles/cheapest-electric-cars/
cawacko
Well-known member
I was using the term 'left' in a very broad context. Tesla and other tech firms (Apple, Google etc.) based here in the Bay Area obviously get a lot of local press. There have been complaints for years that these companies have been hostile to black and brown workers. I've seen (black) friends on Facebook talk and complain about it. I don't work at these firms so I can't truly say. I know these companies have highly educated and diverse workforces (in terms of many workers from all over the globe) but black and Hispanic workers aren't as high in numbers as other groups. Now is that because of racism or either a lack of interest or not enough qualified workers in those groups? That can be discussed/debated.
But to be more specific I could have said black people in the Bay Area and California instead of 'the left' as a whole.
In terms of quality, Tesla is at best an average product. The cars come with lots of issues causing regular trips to the shop for repairs.
https://www.jdpower.com/sites/default/files/file/2020-06/2020070 U.S. IQS.pdf
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1128625_tesla-ranks-last-in-initial-quality-build-issues
Tesla, right now, is the worst car maker in terms of quality there is. Their cars suck in terms of quality and reliability. I will say that Musk has done a superb job of marketing his POS cars to people though...
Thanks for the link and chart. Another factor to consider, and I couldn't find the answer to this, is what percentage or number of those problems were covered by the auto warranty? It's one thing to have 100 problems, all covered by warranty and another to have 20 problems, all out of pocket. Obviously that depends on the problem too such as the cost differential between replacing a windshield wiper motor vs. the nav unit in the center console.
Pilot Joke: How do you tell there's a pilot at a party? Don't worry, he'll tell you.
One of the main rules I learned about flying was "Never fly the 'A' model of anything" meaning let all the bugs be worked out first. Just because it's shiny and new doesn't always mean it's better. I'd stay with workhorse models of aircraft because I'm basically lazy and don't want to have to do all the extra work associated with saving a broken airplane.
cawacko
Well-known member
Not to belabor the point on this but here's another article I came across. I personally think Daily Kos is trash and if I want to read liberal opinion I prefer sites like Bookings, Vox or The Atlantic but that's really neither here nor there. I know there have been multiple posters on this board that have posted a number of Daily Kos articles in the past so this site has a following of at least some on the left.
And my apologies if I'm repeating myself here but just because charges are made doesn't necessarily mean they are true. And I don't see an issue with people buying Tesla's if they so desire. But it brings up an interesting discussion point. When we speak out against racism it's easy/low hanging fruit to call out people like TDAK and Volstruck because they are so blatantly and purposefully racist. But situations like this are different. You can really like Tesla and think the cars/technology are an advancement for our planet. How do you then juxtapose that with what they are accused of allowing to happen in their workplace? (especially in the racial awakening post George Floyd)
And you can see it playing out with the OP. He has racism is a disease next to his name but is obviously a big fan of Tesla and EV's and is defending them so it presents a conundrum. (not trying to single him out as we all face choices like this.) Curious your thoughts.
Edit: I don't mean to present this as a binary choice where you have to pick one side or the other. There's always nuance involved.
Don’t buy a Tesla unless you’re okay with Black workers being brutalized by racist managers
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/20...egregated-in-porch-monkey-slave-ship-stations
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I don't think any of us can boycott every company accused of wrongdoing. And look at China, running concentration camps, but how do Americans really boycott Chinese goods? It's ludicrous. I have a hybrid Rav4, and don't have any interest in a Telsa from long before this story. It just doesn't fit my lifestyle. But if I were in the market, I think these accusations would give me pause. I don't believe I've ever read such egregious charges before. But yes innocent until proven guilty and all that. I also think Musk is a huge weirdo and he just gives me the creeps, I can't help that. All these tech bros are weirdos though so I guess that's baked in.
Also, I'm white, so I am not sure my opinion matters all that much. I think white people on all sides tend to talk over black people. I'd be interested in hearing the thoughts of black people on this.
cawacko
Well-known member
I just added to my post before reading your response that I don't think this is a binary choice as there is nuance involved and you hit on that. We all purchase from/do business with companies that we may have disagreements with. Nothing is really 100% pure.
Not that this guy speaks for anyone but himself this is a black columnist for the SF Chronicle. He wrote this in Dec 2020.
I wanted a Tesla. Then I found out the company doesn’t hire enough Black people
https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea...sla-Then-I-found-out-the-company-15805272.php
Joe Capitalist
Racism is a disease
Maybe more black people need to apply for a job at Tesla. Musk will make it happen.
He really brings up an interesting perspective about tech companies as a whole. Because they are always promoting their diversity and I never noticed until recently that a lot of this diversity is non-black POC. I've tried to pay a lot more attention to that especially internet comments that begin "as a POC" or "as a WOC". Black twitter opened my eyes about a lot of this, and then it becomes kind of glaring.
And yep, there is no purity!
cawacko
Well-known member
Years ago I worked for a real estate tech start up in the Silicon Valley for about six months. Our company/office had around 70 people. We had two black people and there were 12 white people. The remainder were Asian, Indian and a few Middle Eastern (largely Pakistani). The CEO was Japanese. Understandably when we think of race in this country we think white and black. Yet this office was extremely diverse and a decent number of these people were not born in the U.S. But clearly a small number of black people and maybe a couple of Hispanics. (Will never forget one day the head of the engineering group, who was Indian, said "I need some diversity - can we hire a white male?!" Maybe you had to be there but it was funny.)
Now in the Bay Area and Silicon Valley Asians make up a much larger percentage of the population than black people. But they are overrepresented at top tech companies and the best Universities in the state. This can be for another discussion, but are these companies either racist or not doing enough to reach out specifically the black people and/or are black people (for whatever reason) either not applying or have sufficient resumes to work at these firms in which case change has to happen at lower levels.
I think black women have been entering college at higher rates than any other demo for years now, but not sure how that stacks up against Asians. I do think that non-black POC generally suffer less racism than black people do. That is my impression but I would love to read a real, peer-reviewed study on it.
cawacko
Well-known member
To each his own of course but I'll second this. At a certain point you can only say so many times 'Republicans suck, no Democrats suck' or 'Trump sucks, no Biden sucks'. It becomes mind numbing.