Suprise, Obamacare "very reasonable"

it why they are fighting it soooo desperately.

It will be a success and people will hate the republicans for their insane evil attempts to lie about it and stop it.


they cast themselves in this position all on their own.

YOU watch in ten years the republicans will be claiming the bill as their idea
 
Just like they claimed the budget reductions that were seen due to the 1993 ombra that not one fucking republican voted for
 
Jarod said:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/25/obamacare-premiums_n_3984979.html

I saw on television that healthcare inflation was flat last year for the first time in 50 years!
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Can you find a link to verify that claim?

Also... from your article...

Even the average price of a so-called bronze plan, designed to cover 60 percent of medical expenses not counting monthly premiums, masks big variation.
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How is covering 60% of medical expenses going to help? For the catastrophic situations that so many harped on because they 'bankrupt' people... that will still happen.

I thought Obama care was going to pay for it all? Could it be that they wanted to be able to tout 'lower' premiums and thus they are covering less in order to do so?
 
Superfreak said:
Can you find a link to verify that claim?

Also... from your article...



How is covering 60% of medical expenses going to help? For the catastrophic situations that so many harped on because they 'bankrupt' people... that will still happen.

I thought Obama care was going to pay for it all? Could it be that they wanted to be able to tout 'lower' premiums and thus they are covering less in order to do so?
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Gee, give people options and you get pissed off. You don't have to get the bronze plan.
 
Also at the link
Premiums for the cheapest silver plan on 36 state-based health insurance exchanges the federal government is at least partially managing are 16 percent lower than originally projected by the Congressional Budget Office, Cohen said.
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Superfreak said:
Can you find a link to verify that claim?
Click to expand...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323342404579081312680485476.html


Superfreak said:
Also... from your article...How is covering 60% of medical expenses going to help? For the catastrophic situations that so many harped on because they 'bankrupt' people... that will still happen.
Click to expand...

Bronze Plans are high deductible plans with co-pays for specific services and with out of pocket caps. I'm not sure where the 60% figure comes from. It's basically a souped up version of the high deductable plans that are already quite common.


Superfreak said:
I thought Obama care was going to pay for it all? Could it be that they wanted to be able to tout 'lower' premiums and thus they are covering less in order to do so?
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You though wrong. And, yes, there are a range of plans with different coverage levels, deductibles and cetera with corresponding different premiums. For people that don't expect to consume a lot of health care services, Bronze plans with lower premiums and high deductibles are just fine. For people that know they will have lots of medical expenses because they have a chronic condition, higher premium/no deductible plans are better.
 
Dungheap said:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323342404579081312680485476.html
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That is not pulling up an article for me... it says subscription only...

Bronze Plans are high deductible plans with co-pays for specific services and with out of pocket caps. I'm not sure where the 60% figure comes from. It's basically a souped up version of the high deductable plans that are already quite common.
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Except current high deductible plans have high out of pocket initially, usually $5k, then they pay 100%. They are also touting the reasonable premiums of these plans as if that is what the uninsured need. Those without insurance that are young and healthy may go this route, but it is not going to alleviate the bankruptcy potential that the left harped on about. It is the unexpected expenses that get most people. A good high deductible plan has individuals covered for the catastrophic, while covering the normal year to year expenses. This plan makes you pay high deductibles and then leaves you exposed to the catastrophic.

You though wrong. And, yes, there are a range of plans with different coverage levels, deductibles and cetera with corresponding different premiums. For people that don't expect to consume a lot of health care services, Bronze plans with lower premiums and high deductibles are just fine. For people that know they will have lots of medical expenses because they have a chronic condition, higher premium/no deductible plans are better.
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No, I am not wrong. That is what the left has been promoting... that people wouldn't be exposed to those catastrophic incidents that lead to bankruptcy.

Even the 'Gold' plan leaves exposure to 10% of catastrophic occurrences.

Even the heavily subsidized plans for the poor leave exposure.
 
Wow! Not nearly as good as Canada's so far but very impressive. Congratulations Americans for making a start anyway!
Now don't stop until you get the real thing. Socialiazed Universal Health Care for all.
 
Superfreak said:
Can you find a link to verify that claim?

Also... from your article...





How is covering 60% of medical expenses going to help? For the catastrophic situations that so many harped on because they 'bankrupt' people... that will still happen.

I thought Obama care was going to pay for it all? Could it be that they wanted to be able to tout 'lower' premiums and thus they are covering less in order to do so?
Click to expand...

Obviously those in their twenties and 30's without kids will go bronze, the best choice they have. Well they could choose to pay the 'fine.'

What the Obamanites are missing is that those in higher risk, without insurance couldn't afford the premiums along with the deductibles. So they went uninsured and this 'fix' isn't going to change that.

There will still be many without any insurance; yes, some will pay for insurance, rather than fines, but if costs go too high, back to bankruptcy.

So, the docs will lose, more bureaucrats will be hired, costs will increase, though care will decrease. But it's 'fair' lose/lose for all.
 
Annie said:
Obviously those in their twenties and 30's without kids will go bronze, the best choice they have. Well they could choose to pay the 'fine.'

What the Obamanites are missing is that those in higher risk, without insurance couldn't afford the premiums along with the deductibles. So they went uninsured and this 'fix' isn't going to change that.

There will still be many without any insurance; yes, some will pay for insurance, rather than fines, but if costs go too high, back to bankruptcy.

So, the docs will lose, more bureaucrats will be hired, costs will increase, though care will decrease. But it's 'fair' lose/lose for all.
Click to expand...

You're only babbling the crap you've been told to babble by your handlers. What is your motive? Why would a lower middle class person such as you do that? Is it because you've been schooled to wave the flag right from childhood and are now incapable of escaping your indoctrination. When will you come to understand that the American way is a failure when it comes to health care? The entire world has moved on and past you!
 
Superfreak said:
That is not pulling up an article for me... it says subscription only...
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Here's a snippet:

Medical prices are rising at their slowest pace in a half century, a shift in the health-care industry that could provide relief to government and businesses' budgets while also signaling consumers are being left with a larger share of the bill.

The prices paid for medical care in July rose just 1% from a year earlier, the slowest annual rate of growth since the early 1960s, according to Commerce Department data. Health-care increases now trail overall inflation, which itself has been historically slow in recent years.
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Superfreak said:
Except current high deductible plans have high out of pocket initially, usually $5k, then they pay 100%. They are also touting the reasonable premiums of these plans as if that is what the uninsured need. Those without insurance that are young and healthy may go this route, but it is not going to alleviate the bankruptcy potential that the left harped on about. It is the unexpected expenses that get most people. A good high deductible plan has individuals covered for the catastrophic, while covering the normal year to year expenses. This plan makes you pay high deductibles and then leaves you exposed to the catastrophic.
Click to expand...

But it doesn't leave you exposed to the catastrophic, mainly becuse of the cap on out of pocket expenses.


Superfreak said:
No, I am not wrong. That is what the left has been promoting... that people wouldn't be exposed to those catastrophic incidents that lead to bankruptcy.

Even the 'Gold' plan leaves exposure to 10% of catastrophic occurrences.

Even the heavily subsidized plans for the poor leave exposure.
Click to expand...

People aren't exposed to catastrophic incidents that lead to bankruptcy. Again, you're ignoring the caps on out of pockets.
 
Annie said:
Obviously those in their twenties and 30's without kids will go bronze, the best choice they have. Well they could choose to pay the 'fine.'

What the Obamanites are missing is that those in higher risk, without insurance couldn't afford the premiums along with the deductibles. So they went uninsured and this 'fix' isn't going to change that.

There will still be many without any insurance; yes, some will pay for insurance, rather than fines, but if costs go too high, back to bankruptcy.

So, the docs will lose, more bureaucrats will be hired, costs will increase, though care will decrease. But it's 'fair' lose/lose for all.
Click to expand...


You're ignoring the subsidies. And, no, not everyone will be able to afford coverage, which is indeed unfortunate. But because of the ACA a hell of a lot mor epeople will have access to good health insurance.
 
Dungheap said:
Here's a snippet:







But it doesn't leave you exposed to the catastrophic, mainly becuse of the cap on out of pocket expenses.




People aren't exposed to catastrophic incidents that lead to bankruptcy. Again, you're ignoring the caps on out of pockets.
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Nope... not ignoring it... but tell me how that is any different than the high deductible plans that are available today? They too have caps... yet the left insists that they are bankrupting people. How can these not do the same thing? How are they any better? Or more affordable?
 
Superfreak said:
Nope... not ignoring it... but tell me how that is any different than the high deductible plans that are available today? They too have caps... yet the left insists that they are bankrupting people. How can these not do the same thing? How are they any better? Or more affordable?
Click to expand...


First of all, the Bronze Plans aren't really a whole heck of a lot different from the high deductible plans that are available today. That's why I called them souped up versions of high deductible plans that are already quite common.

I'm not familiar with the arguments that high deductible plans are bankrupting people today so if you could give me a link or two I'll try to explain it to you. To the extent I've heard such arguments they typically deal with no insurance situations or insurance with annual caps on coverage and the like, not necessarily high deductible plans.
 
Dungheap said:
You're ignoring the subsidies. And, no, not everyone will be able to afford coverage, which is indeed unfortunate. But because of the ACA a hell of a lot more people will have access to good health insurance.
Click to expand...

No, I'm not 'ignoring the subsidies.' You are ignoring the fact that previously many could opt into employer subsidized plans, but looking at the premiums and the deductibles, couldn't afford it. Many with 'insurance' cannot afford Dr. visits because of the deductibles. They never go, thus never hit limits, do without meds and advice for high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes, etc. There is nothing here to change that.
 
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