Supercandy afraid of reality puts those who speak truth on Ignore...zygote not child!

Bijou said:
And yet abortions continue to be performed regardless. In other words, the moral issue has no bearing on whether or not abortion will continue. It will. So we might as well be civilized, mature and pragmatic about this unpleasant but necessary option. As well, it would behoove society if the mouthbreathing religious zealots would start walking upright and begin to perceive contraception like evolved 21st-century human beings do. That way, there will be less abortion.
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bijou once again moves the goal posts. first it is only about the legality, now...the legality doesn't matter. you don't have the first clue what you're arguing. are you mentally challenged? if so, i won't make fun of your intelligence anymore.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Yes but we devalue human life all the time. The staggering hypocrisy of most anti-abortion people is that they are as a group very pro war. A person who is opposed to abortion in all circumstances should also, using the same logic and morallity, be opposed to war in all circumstances.

So yes, you do have a point about devaluing human life but point of fact is, there are times and circumstances in which it is morally permissable to devalue a human life.
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war and abortion are two very different things. surely you can't be comparing the two.
 
King of Owls said:
no it isn't. the issue is not choice. the issue is when personhood begins. If a woman actually had a full fledged autonomous sentient child inside them they would be committing murder. As it stands, that's not the case. It's not a fully developed human and it's not sentient.
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I would leave out the 'fully developed' as a criteria. That is a very slippery slope as a person isn't fully developed until their late teens/early 20's.
 
images


I love Emo Zygote so much.
 
Bijou said:
And yet abortions continue to be performed regardless. In other words, the moral issue has no bearing on whether or not abortion will continue. It will. So we might as well be civilized, mature and pragmatic about this unpleasant but necessary option. As well, it would behoove society if the mouthbreathing religious zealots would start walking upright and begin to perceive contraception like evolved 21st-century human beings do. That way, there will be less abortion.
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I agree with Bill Clintons assessment on abortion. It should be safe, available, legal and rare. I'm very concerned about the high rates of abortions in our nation. It's a problem. What's incredibly stupid to me is criminalizing women over abortion. That is hardly a solution to the problem. Sex education, including a solid understanding or reproductive biology and the use of birth control is a step in the right direction as is making prenatal care more available and social support not just pregnant women but young mothers with dependent children as well are all steps in the right direction. So is holding young men accountable for their actions and educating them in reproductive biology and birth control.

That or we could force all young women to have one date with SF. That should cure them of ever wanting to have sex again.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Now they're not. They are both about killing human life.
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Depends. Abortion is the premeditated taking of an innocent life.

In war, innocents do also die. The difference is (hopefully) that it is not premeditated. We try to avoid the taking of an innocent life, whether it is a child or adult.

Wars for resources or simple conquest are not justified. Wars to protect those that cannot protect themselves may be justified (note the word may). We should have gone into Somalia, the Sudan, the Congo as we did in Bosnia and Serbia. Iraq we all have differing opinions as to why we went in and whether it was justified or not.
 
Superfreak said:
Depends. Abortion is the premeditated taking of an innocent life.

In war, innocents do also die. The difference is (hopefully) that it is not premeditated. We try to avoid the taking of an innocent life, whether it is a child or adult.

Wars for resources or simple conquest are not justified. Wars to protect those that cannot protect themselves may be justified (note the word may). We should have gone into Somalia, the Sudan, the Congo as we did in Bosnia and Serbia. Iraq we all have differing opinions as to why we went in and whether it was justified or not.
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You're rationalizing. Taking a human life is taking a human life. There are times when that is legitimate and times when it is not. That's as true with abortion as it is with war.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
I agree with Bill Clintons assessment on abortion. It should be safe, available, legal and rare. I'm very concerned about the high rates of abortions in our nation. It's a problem. What's incredibly stupid to me is criminalizing women over abortion. That is hardly a solution to the problem. Sex education, including a solid understanding or reproductive biology and the use of birth control is a step in the right direction as is making prenatal care more available and social support not just pregnant women but young mothers with dependent children as well are all steps in the right direction. So is holding young men accountable for their actions and educating them in reproductive biology and birth control.

That or we could force all young women to have one date with SF. That should cure them of ever wanting to have sex again.
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LOL @ SF.

Really Mott, you're very concerned about the high rate of abortion in this country? I think this is very interesting. Did you know that in the 1930's when abortion was illegal, doctors performed an average of 800,000 abortions a year? Think about that and consider the population the vs the population now. That's a big number! And that doesn't include all of the other methods women used to induce abortion when it was illegal. So how many abortions were there really? Way over 800,000 a year. In fact, well over a million a year. (again keep in mind how large these numbers are because of the far smaller population then) It makes sense since there were few methods of birth control then of course.

I am not at all concerned. I do not mean to be patronizing but I can't get over the hand-wringing of men on this. I will be blunt: I have had both a miscarriage and an abortion. The miscarriage happened so early I didn't know I was pregnant yet. What a non-event that was. I didn't even realize I had miscarried until I went to the doctor for a bit heavier than usual bleeding. I did not go into shock, clutch my heart, or start weeping. It was a non-event.

I often think that men really put a lot of drama into all of this that just isn't there. Don't get me wrong, women do it too. Specifically a certain kind of mother who wants the bearing of her children to bestow upon her some sort of crown of greatness. This might get rambling but let me also just add here that the glorification of motherhood in this country contributes to any complaints men might have about custody battles and what not.

I think that most women who have been through childbirth, abortion, miscarriage, or any combination of those things (and let's not forget that the majority of abortions are sought by women who have already had children) get this much better than men do.

I agree with President Obama. Men shouldn't be making decisions about women's health care.
 
Darla said:
LOL @ SF.

Really Mott, you're very concerned about the high rate of abortion in this country? I think this is very interesting. Did you know that in the 1930's when abortion was illegal, doctors performed an average of 800,000 abortions a year? Think about that and consider the population the vs the population now. That's a big number! And that doesn't include all of the other methods women used to induce abortion when it was illegal. So how many abortions were there really? Way over 800,000 a year. In fact, well over a million a year. (again keep in mind how large these numbers are because of the far smaller population then) It makes sense since there were few methods of birth control then of course.

I am not at all concerned. I do not mean to be patronizing but I can't get over the hand-wringing of men on this. I will be blunt: I have had both a miscarriage and an abortion. The miscarriage happened so early I didn't know I was pregnant yet. What a non-event that was. I didn't even realize I had miscarried until I went to the doctor for a bit heavier than usual bleeding. I did not go into shock, clutch my heart, or start weeping. It was a non-event.

I often think that men really put a lot of drama into all of this that just isn't there. Don't get me wrong, women do it too. Specifically a certain kind of mother who wants the bearing of her children to bestow upon her some sort of crown of greatness. This might get rambling but let me also just add here that the glorification of motherhood in this country contributes to any complaints men might have about custody battles and what not.

I think that most women who have been through childbirth, abortion, miscarriage, or any combination of those things (and let's not forget that the majority of abortions are sought by women who have already had children) get this much better than men do.

I agree with President Obama. Men shouldn't be making decisions about women's health care.
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I think you miss my point. Wouldn't it be nice if there was no need for abortion?
 
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