Subway Pulls Shocking Chemical also Used in Yoga Mats & Shoes

:hand: My Subway after gym sandwich is all the more delicious now that there is a big heaping of SCIENCE on it.
LOL I wouldn't go over board there. The chemical preservatives used in lunch meats are well known for creating nitrosamines, a known cancer causing compound and the deleterious health affects of excess gluten in your diet are well documented....but within moderation you can enjoy your Subway sandwhich knowing that it is safe, nutritious and delicioius. :)
 
Homeopathy, within the proper context, is hardly nonsense, though you are certainly entitled to believe so.

Mott, either you are confused of what homeopathy is or your credibility on science issues has been destroyed. Homeopathy is complete and utter bullshit. There is no reason to believe that a medicine is improved by diluting it, though it is probably better that these quacks dilute the active ingredients since what they prescribe is more likely to do harm in concentrated doses.
 
Not at all. I'm saying he hasn't provided enough data to convince me that 45 ppm of azodicarbonamide in my bread poses a risk to my health or that of the public.

You know not all discussion, debates or disagreements require ad hominen attacks when you disagree.

It does make it more fun. But, you should learn what an ad hominem is and when and when it is not fallacious.

I am not saying he is wrong because he is a moron, but most of the positions he takes and any information he provides should be checked and rechecked since he has a broken filter.

There is no proof that it is unsafe as a food additive and the fact that it is not good to inhale does not really help his case.
 
The less shit put into food the better, it has no good reason to be in bread in the first place. Nobody said that it was going to kill people but it can cause allergic reaction and asthma, so who needs it?
That's a silly argument Tom. They have been using chemical additives in bread....well since there has been bread. You're kidding yourself if you don't think that the azodicarbonamide in banned from bread in the EU has been replaced by some other bleaching agent. Also, the use of these chemicals is often market driven. People like their bread white....not an oxidize grayish/beige color. As for the allergic reaction and asthma you're comparing apples to oranges. Being exposed to large levels of azodicarbonamide have been linked to sensitization reactions and astma but that's not the same as being exposed to ppm levels of the chemical. Before you're going to convince me I need to be concerned you need to provide me evidence of at what level of exposure to azodicarbonamide is there a risk to a senstization reaction or an asthmatic response and then we can regulate the chemical accordingly.

I can also make the same argument with the use of sodium chloride in these food products. Table salt is mutagenic, is corrosive to skin, has well known fetotoxicity, as well as risk of toxiemia of pregnancy and can induce spontaneous abortions. Excessive exposure to table salt can also cause muscle spasticity, somnolence, can alter cellular respiration and the cardiovascular system, not to mention it's correlation with high blood pressure not to mention that continued high exposure can result in dehydration, internal organ congestion and coma. In other words it is significantly more hazardous than azodicarbonamide. Shouldn't you be consistant and call for the banning of table salt in food too, given the evidence?
 
You got to be kidding? Homeopathy is completely absurd. Medicine is not strengthened by diluting it in water.

Acupuncture is mostly worthless. It releases opiods, so does Major Payne's method.

You're welcome to your particular bias but it should be pointed out to you that the allopathic philosophy has its limits too and areas in which it is either inneffective or actually does harm. There are more ways to view health and wellness than through the western allopathic philosophy. Many, such as accupuncture have affective modalities for a very long time and would not have existed for as long as they have if they did not have effective practical applications. Some even have western homologues. Applied kinesiology essentially works on the same meridian concept as accupuncture. Are you telling me that it is mostly worthless?
 
There you are correct. Tom has not really provided any evidence why a material that is less toxic that table salt and is used at the parts per million range should be banned from use. The other applications of the product is totally irrelevent. Table Salt is used in the production of most pesticides, it's used in the production of Chlorine gas, it's used in the production of Caustic Soda, it's used in the production of many hazardous chemicals. Far so more than azodicarbonamide but does anyone here have any serious concerns about sprinkling a moderate amount of table salt on their French fries?

What do you want for evidence? It is banned in most of the civilised world. You Americans dismay me with your toleration of all kinds of shit that is put into your food, we won't take your hormone injected beef or GM products. There is also far too much salt in food so I'm all for cutting that down as well.
 
Or in the same fashion. Before the consolidation of production, communities were able to produce bread on their own. Some degree of autonomy existed.
But they still used chemical adjuncts in bread production. Always have. There is a vast plethora of modifying agents, preservatives, levening agents, oxidizing agents, etc, etc, that have been used since bread was first developed.
 
Not at all. I'm saying he hasn't provided enough data to convince me that 45 ppm of azodicarbonamide in my bread poses a risk to my health or that of the public.

You know not all discussion, debates or disagreements require ad hominen attacks when you disagree.

String is a fuckwit, I will not bother to respond to the twat in future.
 
That's a silly argument Tom. They have been using chemical additives in bread....well since there has been bread. You're kidding yourself if you don't think that the azodicarbonamide in banned from bread in the EU has been replaced by some other bleaching agent. Also, the use of these chemicals is often market driven. People like their bread white....not an oxidize grayish/beige color. As for the allergic reaction and asthma you're comparing apples to oranges. Being exposed to large levels of azodicarbonamide have been linked to sensitization reactions and astma but that's not the same as being exposed to ppm levels of the chemical. Before you're going to convince me I need to be concerned you need to provide me evidence of at what level of exposure to azodicarbonamide is there a risk to a senstization reaction or an asthmatic response and then we can regulate the chemical accordingly.

I can also make the same argument with the use of sodium chloride in these food products. Table salt is mutagenic, is corrosive to skin, has well known fetotoxicity, as well as risk of toxiemia of pregnancy and can induce spontaneous abortions. Excessive exposure to table salt can also cause muscle spasticity, somnolence, can alter cellular respiration and the cardiovascular system, not to mention it's correlation with high blood pressure not to mention that continued high exposure can result in dehydration, internal organ congestion and coma. In other words it is significantly more hazardous than azodicarbonamide. Shouldn't you be consistant and call for the banning of table salt in food too, given the evidence?

I don't eat white bread because of all the shit that goes in it.
 
LOL I prefer sex...unfortunately my wife isn't always cooperative in regards to that particular form of stress management.

Accunpuncture is over a thousand years old. It could not have succeded as a health art for that long if it didn't work in significant ways. One has to be careful when evaluating accupuncture that you don't completely bias your perceptions through western attitudes and understandings.

That history is mostly an invention of Mao. It was never widely practiced. Sure there were some who practiced folk medicine, but before Mao it was treated no different than other folk remedies.

Bloodletting was used for a long time. That does not prove it is effective.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/puncturing-the-acupuncture-myth/
http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...igins_mao_invented_it_but_didn_t_believe.html
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/10/25/chairman-mao-inventor-of-traditional-chinese-medicine/
 
What do you want for evidence? It is banned in most of the civilised world. You Americans dismay me with your toleration of all kinds of shit that is put into your food, we won't take your hormone injected beef or GM products. There is also far too much salt in food so I'm all for cutting that down as well.
And you dismay me for relying on anecdotal evidence and not on fact. You also have an obvious double standard. Are you supportive of banning sodium chloride from all food products given that the facts show that is is significantly more hazardous than azodicarbonamide and is used in far larger quantities?

Also, I wouldn't call the EU and Australia "most of the civilized world" as they are the only places in which azodicarbonamide in baked goods is banned. You also are ignoring that in EU bread production azodicarbonamide has been replaced by other bleaching agents. Do you even know what they are and what their hazard characteristics are?
 
You're welcome to your particular bias but it should be pointed out to you that the allopathic philosophy has its limits too and areas in which it is either inneffective or actually does harm. There are more ways to view health and wellness than through the western allopathic philosophy. Many, such as accupuncture have affective modalities for a very long time and would not have existed for as long as they have if they did not have effective practical applications. Some even have western homologues. Applied kinesiology essentially works on the same meridian concept as accupuncture. Are you telling me that it is mostly worthless?

Acupuncture is a sound discipline but homeoopathy is just a placebo effect. I have this argument with a woman I've known for many years who is well into it and makes a good living at it but it is just bullshit to my mind. Anybody with grounding in science is not going to believe that water molecules have a "memory"
 
I don't eat white bread because of all the shit that goes in it.
Unless you purchase stone ground whole wheat flower directly from your miller than what ever bread your eating has some chemical adjuncts in it. Though I do agree with you on white bread. I'm not big fan of it either.
 
String is a fuckwit, I will not bother to respond to the twat in future.

You are just a silly nationalist. You think the practices of England and Europe are better because they are yours just like you discount the harm of the oil spill because it was from BP. It's a weird way of reasoning, but I guess we have American idiots that do the same.
 
That history is mostly an invention of Mao. It was never widely practiced. Sure there were some who practiced folk medicine, but before Mao it was treated no different than other folk remedies.

Bloodletting was used for a long time. That does not prove it is effective.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/puncturing-the-acupuncture-myth/
http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...igins_mao_invented_it_but_didn_t_believe.html
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/10/25/chairman-mao-inventor-of-traditional-chinese-medicine/
Well using bloodletting as an example rather demonstrates my point about western allopathic philosophy. There are many forms of chemotherapy that are useless and are practiced widely to this day. Example, perscribing antibiotics for viral infections. Does that undermine all of western allopathic philosophy? Not hardly.

My point is that you cannot just view accupuncture by western paradigms alone. Many of the concepts behind acupuncutre have no western counterpart. Having said that there are quite a few studies showing it's efficacy in certain circumstances. I mentioned one earlier, palliative care.

When my brother was dying from cancer he suffered from peripheral neuropathy due to the chemotherapy. That is he would have periods of very sensitive pain in his extremities followed by numbness. It was suggested that he try acupuncture and after a few treatments his symptoms of peripheral neuropathy improved dramatically.

I've heard similiar claims about medical marijuana being useless and I have to admit that prior to my brothers becoming ill with cancer I was very skeptical but the palliative relief he recieved from medical MJ was remarkable. It helped him deal with the nausiea and disorientation from chemotherapy. It also helped stimulate his apetite and helped prevent the mass weight loss often associated with level 4 cancer patients and most importantly it unquestionably helped him deal with the stress and anxiety of knowing he was going to die.

So I simply can't agree with you, there is a sound body of clinical evidence that for specific situations or conditions acupuncuture can be quite affective for those situation and/or conditions.
 
Well using bloodletting as an example rather demonstrates my point about western allopathic philosophy. There are many forms of chemotherapy that are useless and are practiced widely to this day. Example, perscribing antibiotics for viral infections. Does that undermine all of western allopathic philosophy? Not hardly.

My point is that you cannot just view accupuncture by western paradigms alone. Many of the concepts behind acupuncutre have no western counterpart. Having said that there are quite a few studies showing it's efficacy in certain circumstances. I mentioned one earlier, palliative care.

When my brother was dying from cancer he suffered from peripheral neuropathy due to the chemotherapy. That is he would have periods of very sensitive pain in his extremities followed by numbness. It was suggested that he try acupuncture and after a few treatments his symptoms of peripheral neuropathy improved dramatically.

I've heard similiar claims about medical marijuana being useless and I have to admit that prior to my brothers becoming ill with cancer I was very skeptical but the palliative relief he recieved from medical MJ was remarkable. It helped him deal with the nausiea and disorientation from chemotherapy. It also helped stimulate his apetite and helped prevent the mass weight loss often associated with level 4 cancer patients and most importantly it unquestionably helped him deal with the stress and anxiety of knowing he was going to die.

So I simply can't agree with you, there is a sound body of clinical evidence that for specific situations or conditions acupuncuture can be quite affective for those situation and/or conditions.

There are not quite a few published studies showing its efficacy and many more show no effect beyond placebo or the same effect as sham acupuncture (with no real puncture). The notions behind it concerning the location of the puncture are almost certainly false, though many have been seriously injured by those puncturing vital organs.

Homeopathy, though, is on a whole 'nother level of stupid from acupuncture. It is nothing but woo.
 
Acupuncture is a sound discipline but homeoopathy is just a placebo effect. I have this argument with a woman I've known for many years who is well into it and makes a good living at it but it is just bullshit to my mind. Anybody with grounding in science is not going to believe that water molecules have a "memory"
I think there is a lot of homeopathy that is quackary and BS....I wouldn't say all of it is. I would say that much of Homeotherapy based on the so called law of infinitesimals. I think that has been over represented in the popular literature about homeopathy. I would agree that diluting something to the point where there virtually isn't any of it in solution is nonsense. That is many peoples view of homeopathy.

The definition of homeopathy I am familiar with is "to use the smallest possible dose needed for a cure.". For that definition I think there is much validity. There are too many cases in modern medicine about the associated problem of using doses that are not just excessive for a cure but are grossly excessive, leading to other correlary problems. Resistant strains of bacteria to certain anti-biotics would be a good example.

Having said that those who practice homeopath have a long, long way to go to advance the scientific credibility of the health art. I'm just saying that it isn't completely with out merit.

I have a similiar view on Chiropractors and I should disclose that my father and Uncle were Chiropractors and that for a while I did graduate studies in chiropractic. Those chiropractors who try to sell the "hole in one theory" of the vertible subluxation being the basis of disease have a tough sell as there is not a whole lot of science to back that propostion.

On the other hand there is a hell of a lot of scientific data that shows that Chiropractic can affectively improve biomechanical and central nervous system integrity in those whom have structural anomolies. In that respect scientific studies have shown that Chiropractic can achieve significant results in correcting biomechenaicl problems such as scoliosis, torticulises, military spine, nuclear pivot point instability,etc, etc, and can improve posture, can obtain significant results in pain management, relief from headaches and other muskuloskelatal and releated central nervous system problems.

Now I'm not trying to compare Doctors of Chiropractic to homeopaths as they are far more credible and have far more science backing up thier discipline than Homeopathy does but for a long time they were their own worst enemies when they tried to convince the public that the vertebral subluxation complex was the basis for disease. They just simply didn't have the scientific evidence to back that claim up and harmed their own scientific credibility with such claims. My point though is that no one seriously argues Chiropractic effectiveness as a specialized biomechanical modality. That this fundamental premise of Chiropractic is valid.
 
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There are not quite a few published studies showing its efficacy and many more show no effect beyond placebo or the same effect as sham acupuncture (with no real puncture). The notions behind it concerning the location of the puncture are almost certainly false, though many have been seriously injured by those puncturing vital organs.

Homeopathy, though, is on a whole 'nother level of stupid from acupuncture. It is nothing but woo.
I have I have stated in my previous post. That depends on how you define homeopathy. If you define it based in the law in infinitisimals then yes, I agree with you.

BTW, I didn't have to much difficulty finding quite a few peer reviewed articles supporting acupunctures use in certain circumstances, such as I described in my brothers case were the results he recieved were hardly credible to the placebo affect.
 
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I think anything that helps people through illness, even placebos, are a good thing.

The mind can do wonders if it believes.
 
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