Stern: "Trump actually hates his own supporters".

[PoliTalker]

Hello Woko Haram,

And nothing in this thread proves that Trump hates the average person.

Expecting proof of something which cannot be proven is futile.

And anyone who can't see that DT holds others in general disregard simply isn't very perceptive.

 

[RB 60]

Hello Woko Haram,



Expecting proof of something which cannot be proven is futile.

And anyone who can't see that DT holds others in general disregard simply isn't very perceptive.

Why shouldn't he hold people like you in general disregard? You would rather see America fall than him as president.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello StoneByStone,

We have the bare minimum when it comes to redistribution of wealth. That's why we have people working full jobs and still living paycheck to paycheck.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Woko Haram,

Not really. We had a smaller welfare state in the 60s and 70s, yet living expenses took up a smaller percentage of income then than they do now.

The real reasons for economic struggle now have to do with multiple things.

1) We compete with the developing world in industry.
2) We spent the last several decades artificially inflating the cost of housing due to restrictive zoning laws and speculative markets connected to real estate.
3) We allowed the insurance industry to drive up the cost of doing business in healthcare.

The first of these reasons was inevitable. The second can be fixed by loosening zoning laws and ending Wall Street's connections to real estate. The third can be resolved by removing insurance's power over healthcare. We need more doctors to be free to operate as cash-only or at least to make their own payment plans.

Agreed on all points except the suggested fix for healthcare. Yes, get the insurance middle-man out of the transaction, but the thing on doctors: Nothing prevents them from doing that right now, does it?

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello StoneByStone,

Yeah, the reason we still have the bare minimum when it comes to wealth redistribution is because costs of living have changed. What worked in the seventies isn't working not because we live in a different more interconnected world. We also, as I said, failed to keep the rich from getting too rich. That's why we have things like the insurance industry doing whatever it wants.
Theoretically, we could simply remove the insurance's power over healthcare, but we'd have to elect politicians who aren't in the pockets of the 1%. And that's why we need wealth redistribution.

We have to get the big money corruption out of government.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Woko Haram,

Or maybe... the actual shifting going is that the far left has been doing its best through the media to characterize certain views as alt right despite them being popular and mainstream before the rise of the alt right.

If Bill Clinton ran for office today on the immigration policy he advocated in 1996, he would be labeled as alt right today. I remember when the average Democrat didn't advocate amnesty for illegals. Now, if you're against it, you apparently are a bigot and a fascist.

I remember when the average person would just look at you funny if you said someone with a penis that identifies as female should be referred to as a woman. Now, refusal to do so is also bigoted and alt right.

So, when things change this much toward the left, it leaves a lot of people who may have even been considered liberal in the past as being now considered "deplorable." That's the real reason for the rise of Trump.

No, the real reason for the rise of The Donald is that the big-money-right wanted it and funded think tanks that astro-turfed the alt right reactionaries.

And it worked.

Billionaires 'just got a lot richer.'

 

[Nordberg]

He is ugly filthy Whig is as ugly as his revolting face

What do his looks have to do with anything? Trump appeared on his show over a dozen times. Trump opened up. He should not have done that. Revealing his damaged ego and emotional problems was not wise.

 

[Quasar44]

What do his looks have to do with anything? Trump appeared on his show over a dozen times. Trump opened up. He should not have done that. Revealing his damaged ego and emotional problems was not wise.

Stern is a degenerate slime ball
He has polluted tens of thousands of brains

 

[Saudade]

The state has always forced people to go against their religion when their religion infringes on someone else's rights. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all say gay people should be killed. Well, too bad. In America, we will stop you from practicing this aspect of your religion, because it harms other people. If they don't like it, they should try praying.

I was referring to the Christian bakery controversy. The courts did somewhat back the baker in terms of freedom of expression, but they forced him to make the cake overall. It makes more sense to just let the market handle these things. If someone refuses to bake gay people a cake, then plenty will boycott the bakery. Others might support the bakery as well, but either way, the market should decide these things rather than the government.

I don't really think kids should be taking hormone either, even though there really is no evidence of long-term damage.
But I'm talking about trans rights for adults. That really can't be compared to rights for child molesters. This is why the Left has rejected MAP rights, but accepts LGBT rights.

Give it time. Plenty of societies have been lowering the age of consent, primarily due to pressure from the left. Soon enough, the definition of minor itself will change. In the past, the left didn't cause much fuss over trans rights, but now they do, so just because the left doesn't currently push hard for one disadvantaged group doesn't mean it won't in the future. I doubt most people expected pronoun nonsense to happen right after gay marriage. Frankly, if I had known it would happen, I might not have been supportive of gay marriage back then.

Is it authoritarianism to say it should be illegal to kill people?

Good question. Ask abortion activists about that.

The only ones I agree with are hormone blockers being used on kids and mass immigration.
Other than that, what harmful things are the Left pushing for? Calling someone bigoted when they actually are being bigoted? Stopping someone from practicing their religion when their religion is a violent threat to society?

Advocating the release of violent offenders during COVID 19, advocating the release of witness information to defendants (even in cases involving the investigation of MS-13 members, which resulted in them killing a witness), advocating campus tribunals that resulted in various students being accused of sexual assault and rape without any due process or recourse for defense... the list goes on and on.

 

[Saudade]

Hello Woko Haram,



Expecting proof of something which cannot be proven is futile.

And anyone who can't see that DT holds others in general disregard simply isn't very perceptive.

If it can't be proven, why do you believe it?

If you're religious, then I suppose that's consistent with faith, but if you're not, then....

 

[Saudade]

Hello Woko Haram,



Agreed on all points except the suggested fix for healthcare. Yes, get the insurance middle-man out of the transaction, but the thing on doctors: Nothing prevents them from doing that right now, does it?

Sadly, most doctors are tied into a system that does not allow direct dealings with customers without using insurance. If you work for a hospital, for example, you're locked into a network that requires using insurance. If you run a private practice, you normally have more freedom in your choices, but even those can be limited by state laws. Many state governments have made it very difficult to be a cash-only doctor, or to even have cash as an option.

The reason for this is obvious -- state legislators are often recipients of donations from insurance corporations and PACs.

 

[Saudade]

Hello Woko Haram,



No, the real reason for the rise of The Donald is that the big-money-right wanted it and funded think tanks that astro-turfed the alt right reactionaries.

And it worked.

Billionaires 'just got a lot richer.'

Let's assume you're correct for a moment. How exactly is this different from the Democratic party, other than which corporations and PACs astroturf their candidates? In fact, a lot of corporate donors invest in both parties to hedge their bets.

 

[StoneByStone]

I was referring to the Christian bakery controversy. The courts did somewhat back the baker in terms of freedom of expression, but they forced him to make the cake overall. It makes more sense to just let the market handle these things. If someone refuses to bake gay people a cake, then plenty will boycott the bakery. Others might support the bakery as well, but either way, the market should decide these things rather than the government.

I totally agree, but this wasn't about religion, it was about anti-discrimination laws. You can't just say you refuse to follow the law because of your religion. If that was the case, everything would become legal overnight.
What's really going on here is that nobody has the balls to say we should repeal anti-discrimination laws, so they're pretending it's about religion.

Give it time. Plenty of societies have been lowering the age of consent, primarily due to pressure from the left. Soon enough, the definition of minor itself will change. In the past, the left didn't cause much fuss over trans rights, but now they do, so just because the left doesn't currently push hard for one disadvantaged group doesn't mean it won't in the future. I doubt most people expected pronoun nonsense to happen right after gay marriage. Frankly, if I had known it would happen, I might not have been supportive of gay marriage back then.

Child molesters, especially NAMBLA, have been pushing for MAP rights for considerably longer than trans people have been fighting for their rights. What this means is the Left doesn't just accept any oppressed group. If they did, then child molestation would have become normalized before trans people.

Which societies in the West have lowered the age of consent?

Good question. Ask abortion activists about that.

Apples and oranges. Pro-choicers often don't believe that life begins at contraception. People who aren't vegan know that they're killing animals.

Advocating the release of violent offenders during COVID 19, advocating the release of witness information to defendants (even in cases involving the investigation of MS-13 members, which resulted in them killing a witness), advocating campus tribunals that resulted in various students being accused of sexual assault and rape without any due process or recourse for defense... the list goes on and on.

When Leftists say we should release people from jail because of COVID, they don't mean just open the doors and let everyone out. They mean issue more court orders and conduct more hearings so that the process we already have moves faster. And really, most people in jail are there for non-violent drug-related crimes, anyway. I'd release them all.
I never heard of Leftists wanting to release witness information. If this happens, it's not common.
The situation going on with campuses is terrible, but it's always been that way because the campuses don't want to take any chances. Even if a rape charge turns out to be bullshit, it's already out there, and the school's reputation has been hurt. So they just choose to believe every claim in order to keep up their image. I don't like it anymore than you do, but this isn't about left-wing politics.

 

[Saudade]

I totally agree, but this wasn't about religion, it was about anti-discrimination laws. You can't just say you refuse to follow the law because of your religion. If that was the case, everything would become legal overnight.
What's really going on here is that nobody has the balls to say we should repeal anti-discrimination laws, so they're pretending it's about religion.

I can agree with that.

Child molesters, especially NAMBLA, have been pushing for MAP rights for considerably longer than trans people have been fighting for their rights. What this means is the Left doesn't just accept any oppressed group. If they did, then child molestation would have become normalized before trans people.

Which societies in the West have lowered the age of consent?

France and Norway are the first 2 countries that come to mind. Both lowered their ages of consent to 14 in the last 20 years or so.

Apples and oranges. Pro-choicers often don't believe that life begins at contraception. People who aren't vegan know that they're killing animals.

Sure, and people who eat plants know they're killing those. Life feeds on life.

It's also been shown that, if the entire world went vegetarian or vegan, mass starvation would happen. It would also result major market crashes for much of the world's agriculture. If someone wants to be vegan, that's their business, but the moment they use the state to force others how they can eat, that's authoritarian in all but the most extreme circumstances.

When Leftists say we should release people from jail because of COVID, they don't mean just open the doors and let everyone out. They mean issue more court orders and conduct more hearings so that the process we already have moves faster. And really, most people in jail are there for non-violent drug-related crimes, anyway. I'd release them all.

Plenty of people on the left advocate for the release of violent offenders, not just nonviolent ones. Here's an example: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...iolent-offender-jail-coronavirus/?arc404=true

It doesn't matter how well intended these people supposedly are -- their ideas are both dangerous and stupid.

I never heard of Leftists wanting to release witness information. If this happens, it's not common.

It's an unintended consequence of the movement to end cash bail and to help defendants. The case I referenced involved Wilmer Rodriguez being killed. NY recently passed a law that gives defendants more information about witnesses.

Once again, they may not have intended to create this situation, but it doesn't matter. Clearly, they didn't think any of these reforms through.

The situation going on with campuses is terrible, but it's always been that way because the campuses don't want to take any chances. Even if a rape charge turns out to be bullshit, it's already out there, and the school's reputation has been hurt. So they just choose to believe every claim in order to keep up their image. I don't like it anymore than you do, but this isn't about left-wing politics.

It was never like this before the tribunals. Obama's "Dear Colleague" letter is what started this mess. So that was definitely a left wing initiative pushed by his administration.

 

[StoneByStone]

France and Norway are the first 2 countries that come to mind. Both lowered their ages of consent to 14 in the last 20 years or so.

The age of consent is still 15 in France and 16 in Norway. It's also not clear cut like in America.

Sure, and people who eat plants know they're killing those. Life feeds on life.

It's also been shown that, if the entire world went vegetarian or vegan, mass starvation would happen. It would also result major market crashes for much of the world's agriculture. If someone wants to be vegan, that's their business, but the moment they use the state to force others how they can eat, that's authoritarian in all but the most extreme circumstances.

Plants don't have a central nervous system. They don't feel pain like animals do and the growing of plants isn't destroying the planet like the breeding of animals is.

I don't think veganism is feasible for the entire world just yet, but it is certainly feasible in a rich industrialized country like America.

Is it authoritarian to have laws against animal cruelty or unnecessary/excessive pollution?

Plenty of people on the left advocate for the release of violent offenders, not just nonviolent ones. Here's an example: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...iolent-offender-jail-coronavirus/?arc404=true

It doesn't matter how well intended these people supposedly are -- their ideas are both dangerous and stupid.

Any chance you have a link that is free to read?
So far, all that's happened is that jails have, like I said before, been speeding up the process of seeing which people could be let out. And these are usually people who up for parole soon. We're not talking about serial killers with no chance of parole.

It's an unintended consequence of the movement to end cash bail and to help defendants. The case I referenced involved Wilmer Rodriguez being killed. NY recently passed a law that gives defendants more information about witnesses.

I don't doubt that things like this happen, but this isn't a widespread leftist idea. I used to live in NYC and I never even heard of this. It seems like at most, this is a law recently passed in New York that has had one major drawback.

 

[RB 60]

Humans are not at the top of the food chain to eat rabbit food. If you think humans will all turn into vegetables, you're nuts! You are what you eat...

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Nordberg,

What do his looks have to do with anything? Trump appeared on his show over a dozen times. Trump opened up. He should not have done that. Revealing his damaged ego and emotional problems was not wise.

You're right.

That got my interest up.

I searched for archives of The Donald on the Howard Stern Show.

I just created a thread to talk about it.

Here's what I found

Recordings of The Donald on the Howard Stern Show

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Woko Haram,

If it can't be proven, why do you believe it?

If you're religious, then I suppose that's consistent with faith, but if you're not, then....

Yeah, I sorted that out a long time ago. I am an atheist, so I am not religious. But that doesn't mean I have no faith. I do. I have faith that in the long run humanity improves itself, and thus good prevails over bad. Doesn't happen every time, but it does happen more than bad prevailing over good. Thus, I believe people are generally good, and want to do good, want to treat their neighbors well and live in a society where others feel the same way. We certainly don't see this in every individual, so there are always going to be anti-social people. But most people understand you have to get along with your neighbors, your fellow citizens, and ultimately your fellow humans. I can't prove it, but I believe it.

There are lots of thing I can't prove, but I believe.

One of them is that The Donald doesn't like people, is not happy, and holds his own followers in disregard.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Woko Haram,

Sadly, most doctors are tied into a system that does not allow direct dealings with customers without using insurance. If you work for a hospital, for example, you're locked into a network that requires using insurance. If you run a private practice, you normally have more freedom in your choices, but even those can be limited by state laws. Many state governments have made it very difficult to be a cash-only doctor, or to even have cash as an option.

The reason for this is obvious -- state legislators are often recipients of donations from insurance corporations and PACs.

Good point. Also would have to be some influence from the AMA, I would imagine.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Woko Haram,

Let's assume you're correct for a moment. How exactly is this different from the Democratic party, other than which corporations and PACs astroturf their candidates? In fact, a lot of corporate donors invest in both parties to hedge their bets.

You're right, but the Democratic Party is not as 'bought out' as the Republican Party. The two party duopoly is well established. That's why we do not have ranked choice voting. The parties have agreed they don't want to give people the chance to express their true preferences on ballots. They want voters to be forced to choose only between the two major parties, which results in most voters actually feeling like they are not so much voting FOR someone as voting AGAINST someone.

Ranked Choice Voting is a far superior system already in place in many locations. It allows a voter to rank their choices and vote for as many candidates as they like. If their first choice does not get a majority, that vote is disregarded, and their second choice is considered. And if their second choice does not get a majority, their third choice counts. And so on, for as many choices as a voter marks on a ballot.

It is also called Instant Run Off Voting. The system eliminates the need to ever have a run-off vote, thus saving election expenses.

If America really wanted a modern Democracy, we would have automatic voter registration so everyone of voting age is registered to vote, internet voting, and use the Ranked Choice Voting system.

If the internet is safe enough to do your taxes and banking online, or conduct capitalism, then it is safe enough for voting.

But of course the power-junkie voting supprerssors would never have it, fight it to the death. Power to the people is the last thing they want.