USFREEDOM911
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN
And of course; since the Miami New Times posted it, without any supporting evidence, it must be true.
State's Rights
- Thread starter Cancel 2016.11
- Start date
And of course; since the Miami New Times posted it, without any supporting evidence, it must be true.
The law allows deadly force. That's as high as it goes. There isn't anything higher, like soul destroying force or anything like that.
Can you quote the relevant section of the law and explain why you believe it applies to Zimmerman.
(a) The Sanford Police Department is a state actor but is not the State of Florida.
(b) I don't know the jurisdictional details, but it depends. Here, the police said that they had not arrested Zimmerman and did not charge him because they were told by prosecutors that they couldn't make out a case. I don't know if these were county level prosecutors or what.
More generally, what in God's name does this have to do with what I said about Libertarians and the federal government?
They got the stats from the DoJ, Fox also gave the same stats, don't like them, then do the research to prove them wrong, it is that simple. All news sources are reporting The same stats.
Billy the Great Khan
Uwaa OmO
Since I'm short on time I'll just get this outta the way;
I WAS WRONG ABOUT THE 'LAW' I HAD POSTED. IT WAS NOT THE CURRENT VERSION OF THE LAW, AND I AM IN ERROR.
I WAS WRONG ABOUT THE 'LAW' I HAD POSTED. IT WAS NOT THE CURRENT VERSION OF THE LAW, AND I AM IN ERROR.
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
Just curious... but I wonder why the author didn't tell us anything about those justifiable homicides? Why did they 'skyrocket'?
Was it more justifiable homicides due to cops?
Did the number that were justifiable go up because homeowners didn't have to retreat in their home, whereas before they did?
Was it due to cases like Zimmerman murdering Martin?
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The Almighty
2000 903
2001 874
2002 911
2003 924
2004 946
2005 883
2006 1129
2007 1201
2008 1169
2009 1017
2010 987
The above is total number of murders in Florida by year. I haven't found where they are getting the number, since journalists today rarely source it. But still looking, because I would love to see the numbers in terms of where they are increasing.
Due to cop?
Due to homeowners being better protected?
Or due to vigilantes as suggested?
Funny the authors don't break that down.
2001 874
2002 911
2003 924
2004 946
2005 883
2006 1129
2007 1201
2008 1169
2009 1017
2010 987
The above is total number of murders in Florida by year. I haven't found where they are getting the number, since journalists today rarely source it. But still looking, because I would love to see the numbers in terms of where they are increasing.
Due to cop?
Due to homeowners being better protected?
Or due to vigilantes as suggested?
Funny the authors don't break that down.
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
Again moron, yes, it allows deadly force, but NOT in all cases. It has to be force to force. Meaning you can't shoot a guy for touching you without permission. Meaning Zimmerman is not protected by the law. But I now, you and every other liberal on here are going to continue pretending that deadly force is allowed in every situation. Because you are hacks that can't read the law.
I have quoted it several times for you now. Are you going to read it this time???
Zimmerman was told to stay in his car and not pursue the kid... he did. He pursued Martin. It was his actions that led to the confrontation. You start the fight, you don't get to claim self defense. Period.
Add in to that the FACT that the law states that force can be met with force. It does not say that force can be met with deadly force whenever you want as you liberals seem to believe it does.
So the state of Florida didn't proclaim Zimmerman acted in self defense. Thanks. That is all you had to say.
ok... so without knowing... why is it do you think that so many liberals, yourself included, keep shouting that the State has failed here?
Thus far, you have said little that is actual reality when it comes to Libertarians and the Federal Government.
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
most major news sources gave the same data. The point is that they didn't break down WHERE the justifiable homicides were increasing. It could be police shootings. It could be that homeowners who previously would have been charged are no longer charged due to the law. Or it could be that more cases like Zimmerman murdering Martin are popping up. That breakdown will be far more revealing than the raw overall numbers.
My GUESS would be that it has something to do with homeowners... but if anyone can find the data breakdown, that would be great info to share.
If you click through, the source is the Florida Department of Law Enforcement stats, but I doubt that specific information you are looking for is available. My guess is that basically this is a new defense to a murder charge so more people can invoke it.
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
I just shot off an email to the State of Florida Crime Statistics department since I could not find the breakdown. I will obviously share the results if/when they send them to me.
If anyone else is curious... more inquiries may prompt them to simply publish them...
FSAC@fdle.state.fl.us
If anyone else is curious... more inquiries may prompt them to simply publish them...
FSAC@fdle.state.fl.us
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
Most likely the case... but still we are looking at about 3% of all murders turn out to be justifiable.
I understand when deadly force is permissible under the law. There was some confusion when Johnny posted a link to a bill that did not become law which said that you could shoot someone for touching you without permission. I thought we cleared that up a long time ago.
I fail to see how this means that Zimmerman is not protected by the law. There is no dispute that the two men got into a physical altercation so I don't know on what basis you can say that there is probable cause to believe that Zimmerman did not reasonably believe it was necessary to use deadly force to prevent great bodily harm to himself.
I have already read it numerous times.
That's just not true. Zimmerman was not engaged in unlawful activity and had a lawful right to be on a public street. There is nothing in the law that says that a person who pursues someone else cannot invoke the protections of the law. And you're just making the part up about Zimmerman starting the fight. Maybe he just confronted Martin and asked him what he was doing and Martin attacked him. Who knows? Unless you have good evidence that Zimmerman physically attacked Martin I don't know how you can claim that he started the fight.
Again, we've been over this.
No, but the state did.
If you go back through my post I doubt you will find me saying that the State has failed, just that the state has failed.
I think this is really funny. I guess this is what you get when Republicans are ashamed to call themselves Republicans and so they call themselves "Libertarians" without any real understanding of what Libertarianism is.
Cancel 2018. 3
<-- sched 2, MJ sched 1
for the OP to be correct, the local officials must be libertarian. as has been pointed out, they are not. for the OP to be correct, libertarians must support that this was self defense (if facts known are true) and that he should not be charged. so far, i have not seen one libertarian suggest that.
conclusion: OP is full of meadowmuffins
conclusion: OP is full of meadowmuffins
zappasguitar
Well-known member
You asked for something that supported her claim and she provided.
So typical...you ONCE AGAIN move the goalposts when your request is met with information you don't like.
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The Almighty
1) The cops told Zimmerman to stay in the car... yes or no?
2) Zimmerman got out of the car... yes or no?
3) Zimmerman had the gun, Martin had skittles... yes or no?
Zimmerman initiated the confrontation. Had he remained in his car as instructed by the police, Martin would be alive.
as for your word play... yes, I know, you and the other liberals are embarrassed to have proclaimed the state failed when it is only the local municipality that has failed thus far.
Again, yet another liberal not only proclaiming to understand libertarianism (which you clearly do not), but now you are also going to proclaim that we are just ashamed Republicans?
Fucking idiot.
zappasguitar
Well-known member
You didn't REALLY expect ol USF to just let it go when you up and provided him what he asked for, while backing up your claims, now did you?
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
And again... homeowners who previously were not protected are now protected. It could also be due to police shootings. It could also be vigilante type cases like Zimmerman.
We also have seen the data come in terms of averages. The murder rate spiked hard... did the numbers go up here? Or is it consistent? Yet another reason I want to see the actual data.
But I know... liberals just want to shout 'three fold increase' and pretend that means vigilantes are running around shooting people for touching them.
I don't disagree with you here. The trouble is that the law says that a person who is not engaged in unlawful activity and is in a place that he has a lawful right to be, both of which apply to Zimmerman on the facts as we know them, are entitled to the defense. You are creating an exception to the law that does not exist.
Huh?
Just calling them as I see them. Let's assume the State lets Zimmerman skate, finding that the statute applies to him. Should the federal government get involved according to your libertarian view and, if so, on what specific basis in the law?
Homeowners were previously protected under the common law.
Again, if you want to actually discuss this issue please refrain from this type of dumbassery.