Spicer: States will likely see 'greater enforcement' of federal law against rec mj

[Timshel]

that's ridiculous. The Cole memo complete contradicts you, and your attempt to make this political holds no water.
Alaska has legal weed. there may be more to follow.

Not that I support Trump on this - he's got a puritanical view on all drugs. His brother died of alcoholism i believe
But this isn't about politics as much as you want it to be.

The Cole Memo does not contradict me. It makes no distinction between medical and recreational. It merely shows deference to state laws.

Of course, it's political. When has the drug war ever not been political?

His brother Freddy's biggest problem was his father. The asshole treated him like a loser for wanting to be a pilot. WTF, is wrong with being a pilot?

 

[CFM]

The Cole Memo does not contradict me. It makes no distinction between medical and recreational. It merely shows deference to state laws.

Of course, it's political. When has the drug war ever not been political?

His brother Freddy's biggest problem was his father. The asshole treated him like a loser for wanting to be a pilot. WTF, is wrong with being a pilot?

It's obvious you don't have a problem with being a cowardly asshole. You do it perfectly, puss. It doesn't matter whether you're using the domer76 or Buckly profile. You're a pussy either way.

Go ahead. Lie about it.

 

[Irish]

I am in favor of full legalization. However I am concerned about contact intoxication and 3rd hand smoke. The substance is very pungent when a person has smoked it, worse than Tobacco.

Whenever I smell it on a person in public, I feel a 2nd hand reaction. The substance is highly potent now and days.

There would have to be real public use restrictions, much further than Tobacco.

 

[Timshel]

I am in favor of full legalization. However I am concerned about contact intoxication and 3rd hand smoke. The substance is very pungent when a person has smoked it, worse than Tobacco.

Whenever I smell it on a person in public, I feel a 2nd hand reaction. The substance is highly potent now and days.

There would have to be real public use restrictions, much further than Tobacco.

3rd hand smoke??? WTF is that?

No way you are getting anything off of smelling it off of someone. If you were in a poorly ventilated room where it is being smoked that might be possible.

http://www.medicaldaily.com/scienti...fects-marijuana-find-contact-high-real-333620

 

[CFM]

There's just no limit on how stupid, misinformed and cowardly a Trumpette can be.

That's not going to happen and it has nothing to do with the topic. Trump's eo is an unconstitutional attempt to commandeer local and state police forces.

You are talking about federalizing the police force and eliminating state/local control over enforcement priorities. Why even have local governments?

I have not heard anything near that proposed in the field of education. Your attempts to change the subject into partisan crap fails.

Your claim is that is what I'm talking about. Again, as usual, you have no clue.


Are you saying the federal government doesn't have a say in education? If you are, there is no limit to how much you'll lie to cover your ass.

 

[anatta]

The Cole Memo does not contradict me. It makes no distinction between medical and recreational. It merely shows deference to state laws.

Of course, it's political. When has the drug war ever not been political?

His brother Freddy's biggest problem was his father. The asshole treated him like a loser for wanting to be a pilot. WTF, is wrong with being a pilot?

the drug war was political under Nixon -why he even established the DEA- but became less so as time wore on.
It was always reactionary, but not always right/left politicized. generally liberals/libertarians wanted as little enforcement as possible.

But the current "opioid crisis" is definately not political. It wins support for treatment/enforcement across party lines.
CDC protocol & re-scheduling hydrocodone upto a Schedule II is stupid -yet engenders wide support

The Cole memo 2009 prioritized enforcement..basically "big is bad" in terms of the dispersaries.
Harborside in CA was one of the most well run clinics of all -yet it was subject to RICO seizures
and close downs by the US atty Haag .

How many states had legal recreational weed before the last election?
CO is all I can think of and Obama pretty much left it and medical states alone

 

[sear]

#186

You cite Nixon.

Most of what I've read about dw cites the Volstead Act as among the first skirmishes in Drug War.

Interestingly, they knew (as we do) that inflicting a war of martial oppression against the People of the United States of America would be unConstitutional.

So they actually amended the Constitution to wage War on Booze (any beverage containing 0.5 percent alcohol or more *).

After 13 years it proved such a disaster, they amended the Constitution AGAIN!! This time to repeal it (see #18 & #21).

By the time they got around to the current Drug War, they've skipped the Constitutional technicalities, and just do whatever the %$#@ they want.

Also interesting here, iirc in case of both recreational and medical marijuana; some States that have it,
have it not because of their legislatures, but DESPITE them.

It wasn't by legislative vote, but by popular demand, by referendum the People bypassed both State AND federal legislatures,
and chose independent of government what they wanted done about it.

It's also worth noting:
currently there is no legal provision for Initiative & Referendum for U.S. federal law. I think that makes Uncle Sam look as cowardly as Trump.

* The People's Chronology is licensed from Henry Holt and Company, Inc. Copyright © 1995, 1996 by James Trager. All rights reserved.

 

[Timshel]

the drug war was political under Nixon -why he even established the DEA- but became less so as time wore on.
It was always reactionary, but not always right/left politicized. generally liberals/libertarians wanted as little enforcement as possible.

But the current "opioid crisis" is definately not political. It wins support for treatment/enforcement across party lines.
CDC protocol & re-scheduling hydrocodone upto a Schedule II is stupid -yet engenders wide support

The Cole memo 2009 prioritized enforcement..basically "big is bad" in terms of the dispersaries.
Harborside in CA was one of the most well run clinics of all -yet it was subject to RICO seizures
and close downs by the US atty Haag .

How many states had legal recreational weed before the last election?
CO is all I can think of and Obama pretty much left it and medical states alone

The only proof of a connection between opioids and mj seems to suggest mj reduces opioid abuse.

Yes, Obama deferred to the states.

If he wants to do this then he needs to reschedule marijuana.

http://www.inc.com/will-yakowicz/can-the-next-us-president-reschedule-marijuana.html

 

[sear]

#188

I appreciate your effort. But the argument you seem to be trying to refute is the argument of the buffoon.

Most of those interested in learning to swim don't leap in at the deep end of the swimming pool.

Instead, they wade in at the shallow end.

Marijuana doesn't CAUSE heroin addiction.

The hedonists willing to attempt to seek happiness through chemical means logically start out at the shallow end of the pool.

That doesn't mean marijuana is bad.

And the sanity check was provided by infamous doper George Carlin: "Mother's milk causes everything."

For those interested in the formal study of logical reasoning, the "marijuana causes hard drug use" myth stems from logic known as faulty even to the ancients.

They called it: "post hoc ergo propter hoc" (after that, therefore because of that).

NEWS FLASH !! The rooster's crow does not cause the sunrise. Marijuana does not CAUSE hard drug addiction, even if it precedes it.

"I turned to drugs for mind expansion & pain reduction. What resulted was pain expansion and mind reduction. Carrie Fischer: the actress that played Princess Lea in the original Star Wars movie

 

[Buckly J. Ewer]

Stupid fucking cons saw this in the 50s and they still believe it;

ROFLMFAO

 

[Althea]

#188

I appreciate your effort. But the argument you seem to be trying to refute is the argument of the buffoon.

Most of those interested in learning to swim don't leap in at the deep end of the swimming pool.

Instead, they wade in at the shallow end.

Marijuana doesn't CAUSE heroin addiction.

The hedonists willing to attempt to seek happiness through chemical means logically start out at the shallow end of the pool.

That doesn't mean marijuana is bad.

And the sanity check was provided by infamous doper George Carlin: "Mother's milk causes everything."

For those interested in the formal study of logical reasoning, the "marijuana causes hard drug use" myth stems from logic known as faulty even to the ancients.

They called it: "post hoc ergo propter hoc" (after that, therefore because of that).

NEWS FLASH !! The rooster's crow does not cause the sunrise. Marijuana does not CAUSE hard drug addiction, even if it precedes it.

"I turned to drugs for mind expansion & pain reduction. What resulted was pain expansion and mind reduction. Carrie Fischer: the actress that played Princess Lea in the original Star Wars movie

Failing any scientific proof of correlation between weed/opiates, that camp devolves into the claim that using pot puts you in touch with people who use harder drugs. Thus, you are apt to use them yourself.

 

[anatta]

The only proof of a connection between opioids and mj seems to suggest mj reduces opioid abuse.

Yes, Obama deferred to the states.

If he wants to do this then he needs to reschedule marijuana.

http://www.inc.com/will-yakowicz/can-the-next-us-president-reschedule-marijuana.html

the 2 are not the same. Opioids are generalized nerve pain blockers ( agonists )

What does marijuana do? It re-balances everything ( homeostasis)
https://michaelvipperman.wordpress.com/2014/04/20/what-does-marijuana-do-it-rebalances-everything/

Obama thru the Ogden/Colle memo allowed more leeway to the states attorneys.

The CA USDA ( Haag) took the position that Harborside -by virtue of a large clientele-
had to have more " diversion) of medical weed to illicit markets- i.e "big is bad"
++
Obama/Trump cannot reschedule without Congress

 

[Timshel]

the 2 are not the same. Opioids are generalized nerve pain blockers ( agonists )

What does marijuana do? It re-balances everything ( homeostasis)
https://michaelvipperman.wordpress.com/2014/04/20/what-does-marijuana-do-it-rebalances-everything/

Obama thru the Ogden/Colle memo allowed more leeway to the states attorneys.

The CA USDA ( Haag) took the position that Harborside -by virtue of a large clientele-
had to have more " diversion) of medical weed to illicit markets- i.e "big is bad"
++
Obama/Trump cannot reschedule without Congress

States with medical or legal weed have shown decreases in opioid use and overdose. Several studies now have shown similar results.

https://www.usnews.com/news/article...ses-in-states-that-legalize-medical-marijuana


TrumpCo should have to reschedule marijuana if they want to prosecute the drug war in recreational but not medical states.


https://www.fda.gov/regulatoryinformation/legislation/ucm148726.htm#cntlsbb

 

[sear]

"Failing any scientific proof of correlation between weed/opiates, that camp devolves into the claim that using pot puts you in touch with people who use harder drugs. Thus, you are apt to use them yourself." A #191

Isn't that one of the most persuasive arguments against Drug War? Black markets INTRINSICALLY benefit criminal networks from the citizen consumer outward?

 

[anatta]

States with medical or legal weed have shown decreases in opioid use and overdose. Several studies now have shown similar results.

https://www.usnews.com/news/article...ses-in-states-that-legalize-medical-marijuana


TrumpCo should have to reschedule marijuana if they want to prosecute the drug war in recreational but not medical states.


https://www.fda.gov/regulatoryinformation/legislation/ucm148726.htm#cntlsbb

very slight reduction -but agreed any reduction is good. my concern s for the mj advocates
who believe they are interchangable for pain management -they are not.
Ideally everything should be a Dr. -patient relationship- but the DEA uses a heavy hand on opioids
-the recent rescheduling of hydrocodone uo to a schedule 2 makes doctors very leery or prescriptions

But I agree we are just making new progress into mj as pain management-hopefully that continues.

Trump cannot re-scedule without Congress

 

[sear]

"my concern s for the mj advocates" a

Thanks for posting this.

It's excellent opportunity to make a very important distinction.

One needn't advocate recreational drug abuse to oppose Drug War, any more than one would have to be pro-abortion to oppose overturning Roe v. Wade.

Perhaps this insight will help.

You and I might believe a happy, healthy honors student & captain of the hockey team with a full academic scholarship to M.I.T. should not use marijuana. Fine.

BUT !!

A retired arthritic with glaucoma and chronic pain might benefit from use of medical marijuana.

AND !!

There are States that make that distinction, rendering it illegal for the M.I.T. freshman, but legal for the retiree.

BUT !!

What if it's the same guy?

OF COURSE the M.I.T. guy shouldn't party with a bong in his lap.

But these two scenarios define the termini of a spectrum. It introduces "Sorites Paradox" *.

How sick must a citizen be before we grant him permission to obtain medicinal relief? [1]

And why is it that we as a society believe we collectively are better off making that decision for individual citizens than the individual citizens themselves?

We have lost our way my countrymen!
Our nation was Founded on the principle of Liberty.
Liberty means the right and power to think, act, and express ones self in the manner of ones own choosing.
And as a Founding principle, Liberty is an "unalienable" right. What does unalienable mean? Unalienable means:
not to be separated, given away, or taken away.

Yet in Drug War we punish the exercise of this unalienable right of Liberty as a crime.

How can the exercise of an unalienable right POSSIBLY be a crime ?!?!

It's not a War against drugs. It's a War against our countrymen.

* Sorites Paradox:
If 5000 hairs is a full head of hair, is a person with 4,999 hairs on their head bald?
If a person with 4,999 hairs on their head isn't bald, is a person with 4,998 hairs on their head bald?
If a person with 4,998 hairs on their head isn't bald, is a person with 4,997 hairs on their head bald?
If a person with 4,997 hairs on their head isn't bald, is a person with 4,996 hairs on their head bald?
If a person with 4,996 hairs on their head isn't bald, is a person with 4,995 hairs on their head bald?
If a person with 4,995 hairs on their head isn't bald, is a person with 4,994 hairs on their head bald?
If a person with 4,994 hairs on their head isn't bald, is a person with 4,993 hairs on their head bald?
If a person with 4,993 hairs on their head isn't bald, is a person with 4,992 hairs on their head bald?
If a person with 4,992 hairs on their head isn't bald, is a person with 4,991 hairs on their head bald?
If a person with 4,991 hairs on their head isn't bald, is a person with 4,990 hairs on their head bald?
At what point does follicular deficiency become baldness?
At what point does recreational drug use become legitimate self-medication?

[1] Healthcare costs are soaring, outpacing inflation. The current controversy is whether the Republicans will rescind Obamacare, and replace it with something better.
Why must a citizen have to get a doctor's prescription for pain medication? Must we continue to be infantalized by our governments? Are adult U.S. citizens not capable of determining such things as if their own pain is severe enough for them to benefit from pharmacological remedy?
If we cut the doctor out of the loop on that, we lower the burden on the entire healthcare system, thus providing a corresponding expansion of healthcare capacity for more urgent medical attention.

 

[Timshel]

very slight reduction -but agreed any reduction is good. my concern s for the mj advocates
who believe they are interchangable for pain management -they are not.


Ideally everything should be a Dr. -patient relationship- but the DEA uses a heavy hand on opioids
-the recent rescheduling of hydrocodone uo to a schedule 2 makes doctors very leery or prescriptions

But I agree we are just making new progress into mj as pain management-hopefully that continues.

Trump cannot re-scedule without Congress

Yeah, he can reschedule without congress. The link I provided in #188 explains how. Here is another.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixg...-marijuana-and-why-its-unlikely-anytime-soon/

They are interchangeable in some cases. Of course, marijuana is not going to be very effective for severe pain, but many are taking opioids for less severe pain which marijuana might effectively treat. It's also likely that those using it for purely recreational purposes will substitute mj for opioids.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_prohibition

 

[sear]

#197

Considering the pharmacological merits is fine.

There's a more fundamental principle to consider.

The unalienable right of Liberty empowers U.S. citizens to squat in a dark corner of their basement, and wrap their heads with toilet paper if they feel like it. Or sticking M&Ms in their ears if they prefer.

- Cannabis is an herb.
- The Holy Bible says god gave dominion over plants to humans.
- And thus, by reason of our religious Liberty enumerated in our First Amendment, religious Liberty alone grants us the right to exercise that god-given right of dominion over cannabis.

 

[Timshel]

#197

Considering the pharmacological merits is fine.

There's a more fundamental principle to consider.

The unalienable right of Liberty empowers U.S. citizens to squat in a dark corner of their basement, and wrap their heads with toilet paper if they feel like it. Or sticking M&Ms in their ears if they prefer.

- Cannabis is an herb.
- The Holy Bible says god gave dominion over plants to humans.
- And thus, by reason of our religious Liberty enumerated in our First Amendment, religious Liberty alone grants us the right to exercise that god-given right of dominion over cannabis.

"[Y]ou are too well informed a politician, too good a judge of men, not to know, that the ground of liberty is to be gained by inches, that we must be contented to secure what we can get from time to time, and eternally press forward for what is yet to get. It takes time to persuade men to do even what is for their own good. Wishing you every prosperity in this & all your other undertakings (for I am sure, from my knowlege of you they will always be just) I am with sincere esteem & respect Dear Sir your friend & servt," - Th Jefferson

 

[sear]

DI #199

I've wondered. Jefferson, or perhaps more accurately, Jefferson's slaves, cultivated the land. iirc Jefferson cultivated hemp. Author Peter MacWilliams claims Ambassador Jefferson smuggled hemp seeds out of Turkey.
I have wondered whether on Jefferson's reported long horse rides across the countryside, he enjoyed a little doobie.
"What I value more than all things is good humor." Thomas Jefferson