Special Krugman Friday

If you haven't read anything about him or by him you do not have the slightest idea do you? Trust me Piketty's academic and internationally recognized accomplishments are already far superior to anything you will ever accomplish. He has also established two websites on income inequality historically and world widel It's the first time in history that such information has been accumulated and made available to a vast international audience of academics and people like yourself whose fear of facts will prevent them from actually looking at the information he and his colleagues have assembled over the past twelve years. The fact that you are so quick to dismiss him without even reading Krugman's review shows just how closed minded and infantile you really are mediocre man. Your intellect is so frightened by opposing ideas that you can't even read about them.

You might fool some here but you have never fooled me or Darla because as she said on another thread to 3D she is one of the two or three brightest people on this board and you certainly are not. It's not that you don't have a mind, it's just that you keep it imprisoned and feed it bread and water in the hopes that it never causes you any discomfort by actually beginning to disrupt the foundations on which your thousands of preconceived notions of how the world works are based. I can attest to two things, Darla is getting this book as soon as it available again, it is sold out right now. I was aware of it before it came out and I pre-ordered it and have already started it, and it is a fantastic book, that even Krugman's review doesn't do justice to, but he comes close. Piketty's method is masterful (the book has nearly 100 graphs based on the information be has accumulated) and his underlying data is far more extensive and accurate than anything you have at your disposal and he uses it to make an argument that you probably can't even grasp or get your head around. Sorry, mediocre man those are the facts!

But dismiss Piketty, who has already done more solid work than you will ever do, and his exemplary work here, because you don't like the topic! That's real smart! Such action brilliantly demonstrates the vast depth and breadth of your intellect!


The Hollande government in France took his advice about raising taxes and there has been a mass exodus of the wealthy, many of them to London. The elitist Left have taken Piketty to their hearts as he appears to be the new Marx, it's just a pity that it is Groucho and not Karl!

Thomas Piketty's Capital in the Twenty-First Century, a modern version of 'Das Kapital’, calls for a global wealth tax, and ignores some obvious truths

For many on the Left, François Hollande’s drubbing in local elections is not about policy failure, but weak political leadership. It’s the man, not what he was trying to achieve, that is wrong. This makes for a nice line in fantasy, but the reality is that the Hollande policy agenda has been a disaster for France, with a growing exodus of the rich and talented, rising unemployment, and a sense of lost national pride and self-confidence reminiscent of Britain in the Seventies.

How apposite, then, that the humbling of Hollande’s government should coincide with the English translation of a book that provides a kind of reinvented intellectual justification for Left-of-centre thinking, and, according to the author, the “evidence” of growing inequality to back it up. Billed as one of the most keenly awaited economic texts of the post-crisis era, Capital in the Twenty-First Century is the work of a French political activist and economist called Thomas Piketty. As its name implies, it is a kind of updated Das Kapital, but without the revolutionary call to arms. None the less, its economics are not so dissimilar to the Marxist original.

Most economists, when analysing inequality, focus on income disparities, and the way these entrench social divides across generations. Piketty’s big new insight is to demonstrate pretty convincingly, assuming he’s not cocked up the data, a not-infrequent occurrence among economists that capital accumulation is growing at a much faster pace in advanced economies than output and wages. Pools of wealth are getting bigger as earnings stagnate. Labour is taking a decreasing share of the pie, capital a growing one. Neo-liberal assumptions that economic growth “lifts all boats” have been proved wrong, Professor Piketty argues. Increasingly, it is just the yachts. If current trends continue, “the consequences for the long-term dynamics of wealth distribution are potentially terrifying”.

Yet if all this is true, how come, as François Hollande has demonstrated anew, traditional Left-wing solutions still gain so little traction? Even where the popular mandate for such actions exists, it quickly dissipates in the impoverishing consequences of implementation.

Capital is undoubtedly an important book, which contains some genuinely groundbreaking new research. Yet there is also a lot which Prof Piketty skirts around or ignores in this supposed exposé of the “contradictions” at the heart of modern capitalism.

The most obvious of these omissions lies in the very nature of wealth and income disparity, which tends to be much more granular and transitory over time than he suggests. The difference between the top and the bottom is undoubtedly widening, but the idea that people are permanently divided into and trapped in various income and wealth groups is a statistical illusion.
In fact, the earnings power of the vast majority of people will move up and down during their lifetimes. Someone just out of school or college is likely to be a low earner, but by middle age can reasonably aspire to be at least in the top half of earners. By the same token, relatively few people manage to be in the top 10 per cent, let alone the top 1 per cent, for anywhere near their entire working life.

The same is true of wealth. Younger workers tend to have no wealth, those approaching retirement at least some wealth. Nor are wealth differentials entirely a social and age-related phenomenon. Londoners are likely to be a great deal richer than their counterparts in, say, the North East, if only because house prices down south have risen so much more strongly.
As for bigger, inherited fortunes, these tend to be largely blown and therefore recycled within two or three generations. The wealth accumulated by the 19th-century American railroad mogul Cornelius Vanderbilt would have put today’s Russian oligarchs to shame. He was worth tens of billions in today’s money. His son managed to double it again, but by the late 1940s, it had all gone, squandered or otherwise lost. Exceptions to this rule, such as the Duke of Westminster’s Grosvenor Estate, are rare.

None of this is to deny the grinding and inescapable reality of poverty for those at the bottom of the pile, or the sometimes undeserved privilege of those at the top. But the idea that the difference between, say, a $1-a-day Indian peasant and the billionaires of Mumbai is explained by “market forces” is simply laughable; in this and most other cases, it is bad and corrupt government that keeps the masses in poverty. As for the West, we live in a world where the incentive to save and accumulate among low earners, and even some high earners, has been almost entirely removed by the safety net of welfare.

Low interest rates, actively pursued by governments through quantitative easing, have both prevented the wealth destruction you would expect after the implosion of the credit crunch, and turbocharged many asset prices, thereby greatly increasing the wealth divide. How is this the result of “market forces”?

Inevitably, I suppose, Professor Piketty proposes more taxes, and in particular, a globally imposed wealth tax. Good luck with that one. There is more chance of international agreement to bomb the Parthenon than there is of a global wealth tax. Come (Swiss: CADN.SW - news) to think of it, hasn’t President Hollande already tried wealth taxes? Why, yes, he has, and highly effective it has proved in making France a great deal poorer.

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/don-t-blame-wealth-gap-064022670.html
 
Last edited:
The Hollande government in France took his advice about raising taxes and there has been a mass exodus of the wealthy, many of them to London. The elitist Left have taken Piketty to their hearts as he appears to be the new Marx, it's just a pity that it is Groucho and not Karl!

Thomas Piketty's Capital in the Twenty-First Century, a modern version of 'Das Kapital’, calls for a global wealth tax, and ignores some obvious truths

For many on the Left, François Hollande’s drubbing in local elections is not about policy failure, but weak political leadership. It’s the man, not what he was trying to achieve, that is wrong. This makes for a nice line in fantasy, but the reality is that the Hollande policy agenda has been a disaster for France, with a growing exodus of the rich and talented, rising unemployment, and a sense of lost national pride and self-confidence reminiscent of Britain in the Seventies.

How apposite, then, that the humbling of Hollande’s government should coincide with the English translation of a book that provides a kind of reinvented intellectual justification for Left-of-centre thinking, and, according to the author, the “evidence” of growing inequality to back it up. Billed as one of the most keenly awaited economic texts of the post-crisis era, Capital in the Twenty-First Century is the work of a French political activist and economist called Thomas Piketty. As its name implies, it is a kind of updated Das Kapital, but without the revolutionary call to arms. None the less, its economics are not so dissimilar to the Marxist original.

Most economists, when analysing inequality, focus on income disparities, and the way these entrench social divides across generations. Piketty’s big new insight is to demonstrate pretty convincingly, assuming he’s not cocked up the data, a not-infrequent occurrence among economists that capital accumulation is growing at a much faster pace in advanced economies than output and wages. Pools of wealth are getting bigger as earnings stagnate. Labour is taking a decreasing share of the pie, capital a growing one. Neo-liberal assumptions that economic growth “lifts all boats” have been proved wrong, Professor Piketty argues. Increasingly, it is just the yachts. If current trends continue, “the consequences for the long-term dynamics of wealth distribution are potentially terrifying”.

Yet if all this is true, how come, as François Hollande has demonstrated anew, traditional Left-wing solutions still gain so little traction? Even where the popular mandate for such actions exists, it quickly dissipates in the impoverishing consequences of implementation.

Capital is undoubtedly an important book, which contains some genuinely groundbreaking new research. Yet there is also a lot which Prof Piketty skirts around or ignores in this supposed exposé of the “contradictions” at the heart of modern capitalism.

The most obvious of these omissions lies in the very nature of wealth and income disparity, which tends to be much more granular and transitory over time than he suggests. The difference between the top and the bottom is undoubtedly widening, but the idea that people are permanently divided into and trapped in various income and wealth groups is a statistical illusion.
In fact, the earnings power of the vast majority of people will move up and down during their lifetimes. Someone just out of school or college is likely to be a low earner, but by middle age can reasonably aspire to be at least in the top half of earners. By the same token, relatively few people manage to be in the top 10 per cent, let alone the top 1 per cent, for anywhere near their entire working life.

The same is true of wealth. Younger workers tend to have no wealth, those approaching retirement at least some wealth. Nor are wealth differentials entirely a social and age-related phenomenon. Londoners are likely to be a great deal richer than their counterparts in, say, the North East, if only because house prices down south have risen so much more strongly.
As for bigger, inherited fortunes, these tend to be largely blown and therefore recycled within two or three generations. The wealth accumulated by the 19th-century American railroad mogul Cornelius Vanderbilt would have put today’s Russian oligarchs to shame. He was worth tens of billions in today’s money. His son managed to double it again, but by the late 1940s, it had all gone, squandered or otherwise lost. Exceptions to this rule, such as the Duke of Westminster’s Grosvenor Estate, are rare.

None of this is to deny the grinding and inescapable reality of poverty for those at the bottom of the pile, or the sometimes undeserved privilege of those at the top. But the idea that the difference between, say, a $1-a-day Indian peasant and the billionaires of Mumbai is explained by “market forces” is simply laughable; in this and most other cases, it is bad and corrupt government that keeps the masses in poverty. As for the West, we live in a world where the incentive to save and accumulate among low earners, and even some high earners, has been almost entirely removed by the safety net of welfare.

Low interest rates, actively pursued by governments through quantitative easing, have both prevented the wealth destruction you would expect after the implosion of the credit crunch, and turbocharged many asset prices, thereby greatly increasing the wealth divide. How is this the result of “market forces”?

Inevitably, I suppose, Professor Piketty proposes more taxes, and in particular, a globally imposed wealth tax. Good luck with that one. There is more chance of international agreement to bomb the Parthenon than there is of a global wealth tax. Come (Swiss: CADN.SW - news) to think of it, hasn’t President Hollande already tried wealth taxes? Why, yes, he has, and highly effective it has proved in making France a great deal poorer.

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/don-t-blame-wealth-gap-064022670.html

I guess expecting someone such as tommy, who stubbornly refuses to acknowledge the difference between climate and weather, to recognize the difference between a single country and the entire globe is really expecting too much! But at least this Yahoo report found its audience!
 
I guess expecting someone such as tommy, who stubbornly refuses to acknowledge the difference between climate and weather, to recognize the difference between a single country and the entire globe is really expecting too much! But at least this Yahoo report found its audience!

How enlightening, especially coming from someone that doesn't know his arse from his elbow.
 
I am talking successful socialists. Just as I stated.

What criteria are you using to designate successful. Are you talking about name recognition 150 years after they lived are you talking number of books written, or number of books sold or are you just talking wealth accumulation or what? You have to specify what you are talking about if you want to have an intelligent conversation that isn't just based on some kind of ignorant got 'cha or you continually saying that is not what I mean by successful for each person that we name. You might consider yourself successful and I bet 150 years from now no one in the world is writing books about some mediocre man from Colorado! How many people do you think are going to be quoting what you have written her in 150 years, any idea? I would bet none. So what is your criteria for successful? Define your damn terms. You're not just selling some get rich quick scheme a zombies now; you talking to people who want to know what you are talking about!
 
How enlightening, especially coming from someone that doesn't know his arse from his elbow.


Well, you're the one who posted that shit so you eat it! I can't help it if you can't read or make basic distinctions. As far as I can tell from watching your performances here on a daily basis the English public school system's reputation for excellence doesn't include you!
 
Well, you're the one who posted that shit so you eat it! I can't help it if you can't read or make basic distinctions. As far as I can tell from watching your performances here on a daily basis the English public school system's reputation for excellence doesn't include you!

Of course, because you are stupid and ignorant, I doubt that you know that public schools in the UK are in fact private!! I went to a state school, my parents were dirt poor Irish immigrants. Still at least I had parents, unlike a bastard like you.
 
This is a fascinating article and there's no doubt I'll be reading this book:

Why We’re in a New Gilded Age
Paul Krugman MAY 8, 2014 ISSUE
Capital in the Twenty-First Century
by Thomas Piketty, translated from the French by Arthur Goldhammer
Belknap Press/Harvard University Press, 685 pp., $39.95

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2014/may/08/thomas-piketty-new-gilded-age/


Pay particular attention to the line,..."“Of the tendencies that are harmful to sound economics, the most seductive, and in my opinion the most poisonous, is to focus on questions of distribution,”

only because you seem to be very susceptible to anything 'seductive' .
 
Of course, because you are stupid and ignorant, I doubt that you know that public schools in the UK are in fact private!! I went to a state school, my parents were dirt poor Irish immigrants. Still at least I had parents, unlike a bastard like you.

Hey tommy, you poor misguided and uneducated fool, the only difference between bastards and others is that bastards don't always know who their parents were, but it has nothing to do with whether they have them or not. As far as I know in all Western mythology there was only one immaculate conception, the rest were all formed the old fashioned way, including me tommy. Sorry they didn't teach you that in your fancy private school system. Now when are you going to tell us the truth about your first wife?
 
Pay particular attention to the line,..."“Of the tendencies that are harmful to sound economics, the most seductive, and in my opinion the most poisonous, is to focus on questions of distribution,”

only because you seem to be very susceptible to anything 'seductive' .

Isn't that special you actually read to the middle of the second paragraph. Too bad you had to be so selective and deceptive about what was actually said here in disallowing the context in which that quotation exists. In fact, the quotation stands as a point of departure and is debunked by Krugman in the review that you so cleverly avoided:


Thomas Piketty, professor at the Paris School of Economics, isn’t a household name, although that may change with the English-language publication of his magnificent, sweeping meditation on inequality, Capital in the Twenty-First Century. Yet his influence runs deep. It has become a commonplace to say that we are living in a second Gilded Age—or, as Piketty likes to put it, a second Belle Époque—defined by the incredible rise of the “one percent.” But it has only become a commonplace thanks to Piketty’s work. In particular, he and a few colleagues (notably Anthony Atkinson at Oxford and Emmanuel Saez at Berkeley) have pioneered statistical techniques that make it possible to track the concentration of income and wealth deep into the past—back to the early twentieth century for America and Britain, and all the way to the late eighteenth century for France.

The result has been a revolution in our understanding of long-term trends in inequality. Before this revolution, most discussions of economic disparity more or less ignored the very rich. Some economists (not to mention politicians) tried to shout down any mention of inequality at all: “Of the tendencies that are harmful to sound economics, the most seductive, and in my opinion the most poisonous, is to focus on questions of distribution,” declared Robert Lucas Jr. of the University of Chicago, the most influential macroeconomist of his generation, in 2004. But even those willing to discuss inequality generally focused on the gap between the poor or the working class and the merely well-off, not the truly rich—on college graduates whose wage gains outpaced those of less-educated workers, or on the comparative good fortune of the top fifth of the population compared with the bottom four fifths, not on the rapidly rising incomes of executives and bankers.

It therefore came as a revelation when Piketty and his colleagues showed that incomes of the now famous “one percent,” and of even narrower groups, are actually the big story in rising inequality. And this discovery came with a second revelation: talk of a second Gilded Age, which might have seemed like hyperbole, was nothing of the kind. In America in particular the share of national income going to the top one percent has followed a great U-shaped arc. Before World War I the one percent received around a fifth of total income in both Britain and the United States. By 1950 that share had been cut by more than half. But since 1980 the one percent has seen its income share surge again—and in the United States it’s back to what it was a century ago.


I think this will allow people who don't want to refer to the link and the whole article to see just how dishonest, deceptive and selective you actually were. Nice try though! Maybe you should read the book, hell you made it to the second paragraph of this review until you found a quote by one of the "Chicago boys" that had you creaming your jeans. That puts you miles ahead of mediocre man who didn't even bother to click on the link!
 
Last edited:
They are
You hacks on both sides won't raise your heads up to look.
By the millions

In a few small pockets of job creation they are indeed creating some jobs but they are few and people are still being laid off and companies are still shuttering their plants. It's getting better but glacially and only in certain locations. New york State has for instance now gained 150% of the jobs that they had in 2008. And everyone has heard about North Dakota. But overall the market has just barely kept up with the population increase let alone creating enough jobs to do major rehiring of the millions of people who lost their jobs during the first year of the recession.
 
Eight years of bush tax cuts and five of Obama's cuts. Why aren't the job creators creating?

As I have stated many times in the past decade... tax cuts only stimulate the economy in the short term. The effect stagnates if you do not have corresponding spending cuts. The over spending by the government, increased regulations on industries that are useless (see Dodd Frank), bad policy (see Obama care), endless campaigns to 'tax the wealthy' and 'get them evilz corporations' and you end up where we are today.
 
SF I'm not a socialist and this isn't even about socialism. I am very interested in economic inequality and what it's doing to our country and the world. This guy wrote a book about it. I'm going to read it. You seriously have a problem.

Yes... but the author IS a socialist. If you are going to read from an economist, you should understand the perspective from which he or she writes.
 
Not a chance!

again... why would I have? What is he known for? He is younger than me, which to state the obvious means he is not someone I would have learned about in Economics classes. He is French, which means that he is not likely to be as known here in the US. He is a socialist, which means he is going to tend to be an anti-capitalist, which goes against what our country believes in, so again... WHY would I have heard of this guy before?
 
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I hope you've got plenty of supplies, I fear you're going to be waiting for a long time!

So little shill... are you like Darla? Do you think that in order to be educated on a topic that you must write a book? Do you think that writing a book makes you educated?
 
again... why would I have? What is he known for? He is younger than me, which to state the obvious means he is not someone I would have learned about in Economics classes. He is French, which means that he is not likely to be as known here in the US. He is a socialist, which means he is going to tend to be an anti-capitalist, which goes against what our country believes in, so again... WHY would I have heard of this guy before?


Well, I suppose no one could accuse you of being open-minded. So you've got that going for you . . .
 
Back
Top