Sound Logic

Zurt said:
Should the federal government or the states deal with imposters who claim to be attorneys?
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stalker!

hey, why are you so scared to tell us your usernames at usmb? i mean you stole my avi from there and quickly got rid of it... what are you so afraid of? you already stalk my posts over there....
 
Threedee said:
That depends on the law. Since we like to stretch them pretty far, it wouldn't surprise me to see one lay out very specific rules.
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No offense bro, but this sounds like a total guess or a shot out of left field.

Legislators aren't, and can't presume, to be experts in coal mine methane levels, mining engineering, or mining technology. Just like they can't presume to have technical expertise in air traffic control. They pass laws with broad legislative intent, and authorize technical experts at the executive agencies to promulgate rules and regulations.


If Rand Paul wants to be a senator, it's his freaking job to regulate interstate commerce. He can't just abdicate that responsibility to locals. He is required by the constitution to regulate interstate commerce.

Townships, Counties, and local citizens broadly speaking don't have the resources or the knowledge to establish enforceable regulatory codes of technical safety and engineering performance standards.


Sheesh man, wasn't there just some thread recently, where rightwing posters protested and complained that they weren't actually against regulation? That they weren't die-hard de-regulators?
 
Cypress said:
Sorry man, the federal government has the constitutional authority to regulate interstate commerce. Rand might hate that, but it's there in black and white in the constitution. Otherwise, its a race to the bottom among red states to see how many miners they can kill (j/k). The states have their own regs, but there has to be a minimum national baseline, to prevent a race to the bottom.

I think you should read upton sinclair sometime, bro.

Rand Paul doesn't understand our system of government,either. No one is asking him to evaluate and develop workplace safety rules. Those rule are developed, evaluated, and promulgated by technical experts in executive agencies, with input from academia, industry, and informed members of the public.
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Regulating interstate commerce is regulating the trade practices between the states...it has absolutely nothing to do with safety in the workplace....
 
bravo said:
Regulating interstate commerce is regulating the trade practices between the states...it has absolutely nothing to do with safety in the workplace....
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are you aware that the economic transactions between coal that's mined, the mining equipment that's purchased and employed, the transportation companies, railroads, and the power plants that ultimately use the coal cross all sorts of jurdisdictional boundaries? Did you think they mined the coals with pick axes, and just doled it out to friends and neighbors?

Please man, no offense, but don't waste my time with nonsense.
 
Yurt said:
stalker!

hey, why are you so scared to tell us your usernames at usmb? i mean you stole my avi from there and quickly got rid of it... what are you so afraid of? you already stalk my posts over there....
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ah....legion troll lost his voice? we all know you're on the board...
 
Yurt said:
nothing there is any reason to expand the federal the government
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The Govt. needs to be involved to prevent corporate feudalist neo cons like Blankenship from undercutting safety regulations and buying off govt. offices for his personal profit. I realize you don't care about safety standards for any workers because you are part of the upper 5% of wage earners in this country and the death of a few peon miners is the same as stepping on a cockroach to you.

Lets face it, if a few people die so you 'compassionate conservatives' can profit, so be it. The more you and Blankenship can gain control over production and push workers into poverty the more power you gain. Ignorance is Strength.

You are all traitors.
 
Yurt said:
why can't that be dealt with at the state level?

why is it necessary to continue and continue to expand the federal government....that is not what this country was founded on.
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ARTICLE 1 - SECTION 8 - US CONSTITUTION

POWERS OF CONGRESS,

"To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes"
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Rand Paul doesn't have a choice to abdicate his responsibility as a US Senator, and defer the power to regulate interstate commerce to "locals", whatever "locals" means. Its his job to regulate interstate commerce, if he wants to be a US senator.

No one is expanding the federal government on this issues, as I understand it the bar needs to be set higher for safety and performance rules so less miners are killed.


Unless Kentucky is an extremely lazy state, they have their own mine regulators and inspectors. The Feds are just supposed to make sure that the States are all competing on essentially the same level; that there's a national baseline of safety and performance standards in the coal mining industry.

As for the nature of your question about liberals wanting the feds to take over everything, I can't speak for anyone else, but I reject that premise. I can't think of any interactions I have with the federal government on a routine or daily basis, and I'd like to keep it that way. I want the roads, the parks, the law enforcement, the water, the garbage collection, and intrastate criminal law to be done at the state and local level.

The only thing the feds really do is cut SS checks to grandma, pay grandpa's doctor, fund some infrastructure projects, support a global military posture, and set some modest national baseline standards for interstate commerce, environment, and labor. None of which I have to deal with routinely, or which affects me, on a day to day basis.
 
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Yurt said:
oh good lord....this is not about interstate commerce...you're the type that believes that clause applies to everything
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Really?

So Kentucky burns 100% or the coal mined in Kentucky and doesn't import or export any coal across their borders?

Otherwise that sounds like a pretty clear description of INTERSTATE COMMERCE to me.
 
ZappasGuitar said:
Really?

So Kentucky burns 100% or the coal mined in Kentucky and doesn't import or export any coal across their borders?

Otherwise that sounds like a pretty clear description of INTERSTATE COMMERCE to me.
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thats because you're not very bright...if it was about regulating the coal...then you woudl have a point...its about regulating safety of that mine, that has nothing to do with interstate commerce...that is not the feds regulating how you take a dump because the sewer transports your waste across state lines...
 
Crashk said:
The Govt. needs to be involved to prevent corporate feudalist neo cons like Blankenship from undercutting safety regulations and buying off govt. offices for his personal profit. I realize you don't care about safety standards for any workers because you are part of the upper 5% of wage earners in this country and the death of a few peon miners is the same as stepping on a cockroach to you.

Lets face it, if a few people die so you 'compassionate conservatives' can profit, so be it. The more you and Blankenship can gain control over production and push workers into poverty the more power you gain. Ignorance is Strength.

You are all traitors.
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whatever hack...you want a nanny government and hate state rights...you want the death star telling you how to eat, shit and breathe
 
Yurt said:
thats because you're not very bright...if it was about regulating the coal...then you woudl have a point...its about regulating safety of that mine, that has nothing to do with interstate commerce...that is not the feds regulating how you take a dump because the sewer transports your waste across state lines...
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Nevermind. I misremembered the law at issue in Lochner.
 
Yurt said:
LOL>...yes you did...

both those cases support my assertions
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I don't know about both. Lochner actually undercuts your assertion since it holds that states cannot regulate minimum conditions of employment or safety regulations. West Coast Hotel I'm not so sure about and would have to double check.

Still, the idea that the the Fair Labor Standards Act is unconstitutional is way far outside the mainstream and that's basically what you are arguing.
 
Yurt said:
thats because you're not very bright...if it was about regulating the coal...then you woudl have a point...its about regulating safety of that mine, that has nothing to do with interstate commerce...that is not the feds regulating how you take a dump because the sewer transports your waste across state lines...
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Really?

So the costs of miner health and safety aren't passed along in the final cost of the coal when it's sold to other states?

You are right...it's about regulating the safety of the coalmine...you know...where the COAL is mined. Coal, that when sold to other states, becomes subject to the INTERSTATE COMMERCE CLAUSE.
 
ZappasGuitar said:
Really?

So the costs of miner health and safety aren't passed along in the final cost of the coal when it's sold to other states?

You are right...it's about regulating the safety of the coalmine...you know...where the COAL is mined. Coal, that when sold to other states, becomes subject to the INTERSTATE COMMERCE CLAUSE.
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like i said...YOUR interpretation is wrong and gives you the logical conclusion of having the federal government make safety regs if your excrement crosses state lines....

read up on the commerce clause, because its clear you're clueless
 
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