Some comparison as to why the order to kill survivors was a war crime

Doesn't change that the US doesn't prosecute their own for war crimes except on very rare occasions like Lt. Calley in Vietnam.
And then you admit that we DO sometimes prosecute for war crimes after arguing against me when I said we DO sometimes prosecute for war crimes.
No, the Secretary of War is not. The Secretary of War is an advisor to the President and the equivalent of a staff officer. The Secretary of War is not in the direct chain of command.
I see you are now accusing the Trump administration of lying when they say that the Secretary of Defense gave the order they say he gave.
 
Whiskey Pete gave the order, T. A.

U.S. war‑crimes prosecutions of its own personnel since WWII have been rare.

The most documented cases include:

  • My Lai Massacre (Vietnam) — Only Lt. William Calley was convicted
  • Korean War — A few courts‑martial for prisoner abuse
  • Iraq War — Abu Ghraib, Mahmudiyah rape‑murder case, and a handful of others
  • Afghanistan — Kandahar massacre (Staff Sgt. Robert Bales), and a few smaller cases
These add up to dozens of courts‑martial, but not hundreds, and certainly not anything close to the scale of WWII tribunals.

Search results do not contain a count of U.S. war‑crimes prosecutions since WWII.
  • They do confirm that the U.S. has prosecuted some personnel under the UCMJ and the War Crimes Act.
  • They also confirm that My Lai resulted in only one conviction
 
And then you admit that we DO sometimes prosecute for war crimes after arguing against me when I said we DO sometimes prosecute for war crimes.

I see you are now accusing the Trump administration of lying when they say that the Secretary of Defense gave the order they say he gave.
The Sec of War can relay the orders of the CinC in his name. That's common with any military Chief of Staff position. You really don't know how military chains of command work.

When I had to submit memorandums and reports on stuff I was tasked with doing, I would sign them and add the line "By direction." That meant that the CO or other officer that was ultimately in charge had given me an order / permission to do the memo or report and that I didn't need to have them sign it. I signed it in their name using that tag.

Same thing here. Trump gave the orders, Hegseth carried them out "By direction," to use the Navy terminology. The other services may vary some from that, but each has its proper bureaucratic etiquette you follow.
 
The Sec of War can relay the orders of the CinC in his name. That's common with any military Chief of Staff position. You really don't know how military chains of command work.

When I had to submit memorandums and reports on stuff I was tasked with doing, I would sign them and add the line "By direction." That meant that the CO or other officer that was ultimately in charge had given me an order / permission to do the memo or report and that I didn't need to have them sign it. I signed it in their name using that tag.

Same thing here. Trump gave the orders, Hegseth carried them out "By direction," to use the Navy terminology. The other services may vary some from that, but each has its proper bureaucratic etiquette you follow.
So you ARE accusing the Trump administration of lying.
 
If you read Fighting Power by van Creveld, you find that's not true. Most charges that could be prosecuted that way were charged simply as their civilian equivalent, murder, rape, etc. There's plenty of personal anecdotes, like one in a volume of The 36th Infantry Division Historical Quarterly where an then officer of that division commanding an infantry company brought in a German officer POW to the battalion HQ. The major commanding the battalion ordered the junior officer to escort the German to the rear. The junior officer--the man recounting this as having been that officer--objected as his company was to mount an attack in like an hour and he felt he needed to be there to command. The major overruled him. The junior officer took the German outside the HQ location, shot him dead--and yes, this guy says he did it--and then told the major the German "tried to escape."
The major wanted to do what you say, bring him up as a war criminal and court martial him. The colonel in charge of the regiment, chewed the major out saying that officer was right and needed to be with his company for the attack and it was just too bad about the German. The major was told to STFU and get back to winning the war. The guy says the major soon became more aware of what it meant to be on the frontlines and became a "good officer."

Otto Skorzeny, Hitler's equivalent of the OSS or MI 6 was tried for various war crimes at Nuremburg after the war. His defense lawyer brought in the US and British equivalent officers from the OSS and MI 6 where they testified that they did all the same dirty tricks--like dressing in enemy uniforms, assassinating officers, using torture to get information, etc. Skorzeny's case was thrown out since the Allies would have had to try their own "dirty tricks" guys for the war crimes Skorzeny was accused of.

That's just two of hundreds, if not thousands, of "war crime" stories from WW 2 to be had.

Hegseth wasn't in command. He wasn't giving the orders.

In any case, my argument still stands. The only true war crime is losing.

Hegseth won't be tried. The officers commanding those strikes won't be tried. In fact, if you started trying military officers every time they made some decision to use force that might be questionable, you'd quickly have no officers making such decisions and you'd lose every war you tried to fight.

It is the height of asininity to think that the military is just a police force equipped with better weapons. That sort of utterly imbecilic thinking gets people killed. The military isn't there to "bring the bad guys to justice" or serve a warrant. They are there to kill the enemy, break all their things, and fuck everything and anything the designated enemy has.
Trump has designated these drug cartels as international terrorists. In using the military, he is doing what should be done. The military doesn't give warning commands or read the persons targeted their goddamned rights. They blow the fuck out of them with overwhelming force and kill them all.

You think this is some sort of law enforcement action? It isn't. It's military action short of war and it's something the US, and every other nation on Earth, has practiced since prehistoric times.
Remember Mai Lai?
 
The act of blowing up boats, without due process or real knowledge of who they are and what they are doing, is a war crime. Did Trump give us a list of the names of the people he had murdered? The boats are in Venezuela's territory. It is an act of war. Then killing people who survived an illegal attack is even worse. It is not what we are supposed to do. I feel ashamed of who we are when Trump has power.
 
Doesn't change that the US doesn't prosecute their own for war crimes except on very rare occasions like Lt. Calley in Vietnam.

No, the Secretary of War is not. The Secretary of War is an advisor to the President and the equivalent of a staff officer. The Secretary of War is not in the direct chain of command.
You got a sharp tongue for someone who still lives at home.
 
I'm incompetent because I repeat what the Trump administration says? That certainly looks like you are accusing the Trump administration of lying.
Really Dicky? Put up or shut up, you're knee-deep in bullshit again. I've heard Trump say he's cool with whatever Hegseth decides. That what you're peddling this time? Because as @T. A. Gardner laid out spot-on, military chains ain't a solo act, it's all CinC direction down the line.

He's wrong? This your golden shot to finally nail one right. Would be a miracle, first I've witnessed. Cough up the verbatim Trump quote where he says Hegseth dropped the order without my sign-off. Hey, skip the part about Trump's sign-off and just show us all a quote with Trump uttering the words, 'Hegseth gave the orders' and I call that your first win.

Of course, Dicky's half-right if we dive into the weeds. Trump has absolutely uttered 'Hegseth' and 'the' and 'gave' and 'order' somewhere along the way, so yeah, technically he's said Hegseth gave the order, lmao. That's libtard honesty, where stringing random words counts as a gotcha. I wouldn't be surprised if that's exactly where Dicky gets the idea it was said, lol. Poor Dicky
 
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