Social Security in the U.S. is a Ponzi Scheme

Libhater said:
1. Your return on your "contribution" is -4%. That's NEGATIVE 4%.

2. If you die unexpectedly, your "contribution" is absorbed into the system, your family sees $0.00.

3. If you were to actually invest that same money into an IRA, most people would retire millionaires, and if they died unexpectedly,
their family would have access to that wealth.

4. The Social Security tax is just another failed attempt at Collectivism.

5. Your "contribution" is not properly invested by the Government. It is literally used to pay the SS checque to retired people now.

6. Social Security should be phased out, allowing people to invest those earnings tax-free into a retirement portfolio, so they can
actually retire in comfort. A new system should be implemented to help people that are actually destitute.

7. Look at your pay stub. Actually look at it. Understand that you are being robbed. That "contribution" isn't really a contribution.
It's not voluntary. It is forced upon you. It is a tax. Stop believing the lie.
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Let me understand this, because it isn't making much sense.

SS is a forced retirement plan that is automatically deducted from your paycheck. Eventually, they have to start paying you back.

The Ponzi scheme is not the SS system, but what they do with your money after forcefully extracting it from you. They hand you an IOU, one you will be forced to pay interest on, and spend the money to cover deficit spending. The worst part of this scheme is that it is not "security" by any stretch of the imagination. You can't live on it. It didn't provide interest for all those years it was being taken and you can leave it to your survivors like a real investment.

SS is not an entitlement. It is paid for by working taxpayers.
 
AProudLefty said:
The question of whether Social Security is a Ponzi scheme comes up a lot because of how it’s structured. A Ponzi scheme is a fraud where returns for older investors are paid using funds from newer investors,
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You just described how the SS system is working. Now try to address the argument being made.
 
Poor Richard Saunders said:
Not true. It can vary widely since SS is based on a few of your highest earning years.

Again, not true since SS is more than just a retirement. It pays your family if you die when you have minor children.

Again, not necessarily true. Someone who earned minimum wage for the last 40 years wouldn't even reach $500,000.
Someone that earned $15 an hour for 40 years would only have $940,000 at retirement.

Actually, the SS met it's original intent. It was to keep orphans and widows and old people out of poverty.

SS has always been pay as you go in that contributions pay the benefits of retirees. Then in the 1980s it was changed to collect more than it paid out. At that point, the GOP decided they would just use those extra moneys to pay for what should have been paid by the general fund. No way was ever figured out how to pay back the money which would have required higher income taxes.

When Obama wanted to change the 401K rules to make it opt out instead of opt in, the GOP threw a hissy fit.

Only an idiot like you would think that SS is a tax and not a "contribution."
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:lolup: This is why you cannot argue with leftist morons.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
JPP MAGAts are almost all elderly and suffering from cognitive decline just like their Orange Jesus. They are already collecting social security and have no problem denying their own kids and grandkids the benefits.
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Nordberg said:
Realism does not enter into the Trumpian world. The reason we started SS was that many older Americans were starving. The stories of old people living off cat food, which was cheap then abounded. The reality is a lot of people live day to day and they cannot accumulate wealth. Lots get sick or injured and cannot work. Many are born with mental or physical problems and cannot work. In some cases, the father or mother dies and the kids are adrift. SS helps all those people.
Ther rightys pass judgment on people they know nothing about. Paul Ryans father died and SS made it possible for him to survive and go to college. Once in office, he attacked SS the institution that saved him. That is what the right does.
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ULTRA MAGA said:
By golly you are absolutely correct. I used an actual compound interest calculator and AI was way off!

You will have much more money than AI thought. Of course you are still clueless about how any of it works.

The average SS payment is $1900 a month. You would have to live to be 520 years old to benefit the same sum as you would have saving $310 a month for 50 years in the average mutual fund. Think about that for a minute. It's actually mind boggling the ripoff of SS to we the people.

Even though you can't understand them, numbers don't lie.

View attachment 46438
View attachment 46439
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You made a small mistake. The market doesn't compound monthly. Growth is calculated yearly. There is no monthly compounding in the market numbers.
 
Nordberg said:
Realism does not enter into the Trumpian world. The reason we started SS was that many older Americans were starving. The stories of old people living off cat food, which was cheap then abounded. The reality is a lot of people live day to day and they cannot accumulate wealth. Lots get sick or injured and cannot work. Many are born with mental or physical problems and cannot work. In some cases, the father or mother dies and the kids are adrift. SS helps all those people.
Ther rightys pass judgment on people they know nothing about. Paul Ryans father died and SS made it possible for him to survive and go to college. Once in office, he attacked SS the institution that saved him. That is what the right does.
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Ok so how about instead of running it like a ponzi scheme the Govt actually invests it for you after confiscating it?

Disability could be an entirely different fund. Of course people would actually have to be disabled in that case unlike now where fraud is rampant.

Then at least you could eat wet cat food.
 
ULTRA MAGA said:
Ok you only need to live to be 450 years old, you got me there! :laugh:
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Then you have to understand that the market doesn't actually pay an interest rate. The return is an average over time. It still depends a lot on luck of when you start saving and when you retire. Firecalc has a graphic that shows how your savings will be depleted depending on which year you retire. It uses 73, 74 and 75 to show can happen.

Screenshot 2025-03-22 163919.png

FIRECalc: A different kind of retirement calculator

www.firecalc.com www.firecalc.com

To do a reasonable representation of the market, you need to run a Monte Carlo simulation.
 
ULTRA MAGA said:
Ok so how about instead of running it like a ponzi scheme the Govt actually invests it for you after confiscating it?

Disability could be an entirely different fund. Of course people would actually have to be disabled in that case unlike now where fraud is rampant.

Then at least you could eat wet cat food.
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SS has a trust fund that is invested in government bonds. The problem is that the borrower is the government and the only way to pay back the SS trust fund is to get more revenue from income tax.
 
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