So it's true...Governor Walker lied to Wisconsin voters
- Thread starter zappasguitar
- Start date
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
What bullshit.....where did Walker EVER say that THAT PARTICULAR PROVISION DID SAVE ANY MONEY ???
The only liar in this threat seems to be Zappas LYING guitar......
I would guess, it would save money in the future dealing with the unions .....
Thing is folks, if Bravo's reading comprehension were on par with an 8th grader, he wouldn't have to "guess". Also, since Walker is admitting that this particular provision/proposal/part does not save any money at present, how in the hell would it save money "in the future dealing with the unions"? Obviously, Bravo is unaware or has forgotten that Walker's proposal was to deal with the CURRENT budget crisis on the table for Wisconsin.
Once again, our intellectually impotent Bravo shoots a blank.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
Zappa points to the TRUTH of Walker's own words, which makes Walker a liar. His thread title opens with " So it's true...." which points to a question regarding Walker's previous statements raised by others. Had Zap wanted to say otherwise, he wouldn't entertain the question, he would have opened with "Walker's a liar and here's the proof". And if you're going to play word games, I have yet to read were Walker (or his political associates or pundits) has describe himself as a "rightie".
Walker was asked a straight question, and his answer nails him for a liar....and Yurt doesn't like it...TFB for Yurt.
Cancel 2018. 3
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like i said....zappa is always calling righties liars....
you keep proving my point and i have no idea why.....but thank you.
and now you're claiming walker is a not a rightie in zappa's eyes.....LMAO....if walker was a dem, zappa would NEVER have made this thread. he has never made a single thread or post condemning a liberal.
If Walker NEVER said that THAT PARTICULAR PROVISION SAVED MONEY then he obviously didn't lie about anything....
What is the provision in question ? THIS:
" your proposal would require unions to hold annual votes to continue representing their own members."
So step up the plate pinheads.....show us all WHERE WALKER said that provision ( requiring unions to hold annual votes to continue representing their members ) was suppose to save money.....
What? Can't do it.....Don't have a link ? Can't prove Walker lied......
I thought so.....
so go on and tapdance around the issue...and spout some namecalling like you naturally do.....thats what you usually do and I expect nothing different now......
PS,,,,Don't stop suddenly there Zap, or TaiChi will run his nose right up your browneye....
What is the provision in question ? THIS:
" your proposal would require unions to hold annual votes to continue representing their own members."
So step up the plate pinheads.....show us all WHERE WALKER said that provision ( requiring unions to hold annual votes to continue representing their members ) was suppose to save money.....
What? Can't do it.....Don't have a link ? Can't prove Walker lied......
I thought so.....
so go on and tapdance around the issue...and spout some namecalling like you naturally do.....thats what you usually do and I expect nothing different now......
PS,,,,Don't stop suddenly there Zap, or TaiChi will run his nose right up your browneye....
Cancel 2018. 3
<-- sched 2, MJ sched 1
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
Once again, Yurt displays that either he can't comprehend what he reads or that he's a liar. This is why Yurt constantly repeats his nonsense despite evidence/facts to the contrary....and then follows it up with false bravado of hysterics. In short, Yurt cannot logically or factually disprove the contents of Zap's post regarding Walker's admission, so he tries character assasination. Yurt the failed neocon propagandist rides again....and falls off his horse!
Yurt doesn't need to disprove Zaps lies......Zap can't prove his assertions aren't bullshit to begin with.....
You can't seriously think that posting crap from a liberal blog is even remotely considered proof or anything by anybody....
:lol:
Just step up the plate.....show us all WHERE WALKER said that provision ( requiring unions to hold annual votes to continue representing their members ) was suppose to save money.....
and you'll have a winner....
You can't seriously think that posting crap from a liberal blog is even remotely considered proof or anything by anybody....
:lol:
Just step up the plate.....show us all WHERE WALKER said that provision ( requiring unions to hold annual votes to continue representing their members ) was suppose to save money.....
and you'll have a winner....
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
What's truly sad is that Bravo, Yurt and other like minded neocon numbskulls try to push their patented poor reading comprehension, willful ignorance and general dishonesty in a discussion....especially in a printed medium. When they can't disprove a simple fact, they try to create an alternative to replace it. But the truth has a way of setting things straight. Please note the following that puts the nail in Walker's coffin:
Legislative Fiscal Bureau
One East Main, Suite 301 • Madison, WI 53703 • (608) 266-3847 • Fax: (608) 267-6873
February 14, 2011
TO: Representative Peter Barca
Room 201 West, State Capitol
FROM: Bob Lang, Director
SUBJECT: Non-Fiscal Policy Items Contained Within the Budget Adjustment Bill (SS SB 11)
This office has prepared the attached list of items that are contained within SS SB 11 and SS
AB ___ (LRB 1426/1). The list is comprised of items that are primarily of a non-fiscal policy
nature. Included are the page and item number showing where the provisions are described in the
Legislative Fiscal Bureau's February 14, 2011, summary of the bills.
Putting such a list together always requires some subjective judgment on which items should
be identified. Arguments could be made to expand the list beyond what is presented here or to
delete some items from it. However, in preparing the attached list, this office applied the same
criteria that it has used previously when identifying provisions as non-fiscal policy items.
The criteria used are as follows: (1) generally, the item has no state fiscal effect; (2) if there
is a state fiscal effect associated with an item, the policy implications of the provision outweigh
any potential fiscal effect; (3) the item has been, or is, the subject of separate, non-budget
legislation; (4) the item is one that typically would be reviewed by a standing committee of the
Legislature; and (5) the provision could be accomplished without statutory directive, such as
reports, studies, and audits. Items that typically are not included on the list are those that: (1)
affect state program eligibility; (2) would generally be referred to the Joint Committee on Finance
if introduced as separate legislation; and (3) address a reorganization or transfer of state
government operations or functions.
There is one item included on the non-fiscal list that should be noted. That item is entitled,
"Medical Assistance -- Study and Implementation of Program Changes." The provision could
potentially give broad authority to the Department of Health Services, with approval of the Joint
Committee on Finance, to significantly modify the medical assistance program and supersede most
statutory provisions regarding the program. While the provision may result in significant savings
in the future, it has been included on the list because it would remove the entire Legislature from
determining substantial elements of the medical assistance program.
Page 2
Also note that the study of potential modifications of the Wisconsin Retirement System
(WRS) and state employee health insurance options (Page 32, #5) was not included on the nonfiscal
policy list. Under the bill, a GPR sum sufficient appropriation is created in the Department
of Employee Trust Funds to conduct the legislatively directed studies. This appropriation is being
provided because EFT cannot utilize public employee trust fund monies for studies directed by the
Legislature. As a result, despite that fact that studies are typically included on the non-fiscal policy
list, this particular item was excluded.
BL/sas
Attachment
Page 3
NON-FISCAL POLICY ITEMS
CHILDREN AND FAMILIES
• Collective Bargaining for Day Care Providers (Page 4, #2)
HEALTH SERVICES
• Medical Assistance -- Study and Implementation of Program Changes (Page 8, #1)
• Wisconsin Quality Home Care Authority (Page 17, #6)
STATE CIVIL SERVICE SYSTEM
• Replacement of Classified Positions with Unclassified Positions (Page 23, #1)
• Transfer of Career Executive Employees (Page 26, #2)
• Discharge of State Employees (Page 26, #3)
WISCONSIN RETIREMENT SYSTEM AND PUBLIC SECTOR HEALTH INSURANCE
BENEFITS
• Group Insurance Board Membership Requirement (Page 36, #11)
COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AND EMPLOYMENT RELATIONS PROVISIONS
• Public Employee Collective Bargaining Modifications (Page 36, #1)
• Repeal Collective Bargaining Rights for University of Wisconsin System Faculty and
Academic Staff (Page 44, #2)
Legislative Fiscal Bureau
One East Main, Suite 301 • Madison, WI 53703 • (608) 266-3847 • Fax: (608) 267-6873
February 14, 2011
TO: Representative Peter Barca
Room 201 West, State Capitol
FROM: Bob Lang, Director
SUBJECT: Non-Fiscal Policy Items Contained Within the Budget Adjustment Bill (SS SB 11)
This office has prepared the attached list of items that are contained within SS SB 11 and SS
AB ___ (LRB 1426/1). The list is comprised of items that are primarily of a non-fiscal policy
nature. Included are the page and item number showing where the provisions are described in the
Legislative Fiscal Bureau's February 14, 2011, summary of the bills.
Putting such a list together always requires some subjective judgment on which items should
be identified. Arguments could be made to expand the list beyond what is presented here or to
delete some items from it. However, in preparing the attached list, this office applied the same
criteria that it has used previously when identifying provisions as non-fiscal policy items.
The criteria used are as follows: (1) generally, the item has no state fiscal effect; (2) if there
is a state fiscal effect associated with an item, the policy implications of the provision outweigh
any potential fiscal effect; (3) the item has been, or is, the subject of separate, non-budget
legislation; (4) the item is one that typically would be reviewed by a standing committee of the
Legislature; and (5) the provision could be accomplished without statutory directive, such as
reports, studies, and audits. Items that typically are not included on the list are those that: (1)
affect state program eligibility; (2) would generally be referred to the Joint Committee on Finance
if introduced as separate legislation; and (3) address a reorganization or transfer of state
government operations or functions.
There is one item included on the non-fiscal list that should be noted. That item is entitled,
"Medical Assistance -- Study and Implementation of Program Changes." The provision could
potentially give broad authority to the Department of Health Services, with approval of the Joint
Committee on Finance, to significantly modify the medical assistance program and supersede most
statutory provisions regarding the program. While the provision may result in significant savings
in the future, it has been included on the list because it would remove the entire Legislature from
determining substantial elements of the medical assistance program.
Page 2
Also note that the study of potential modifications of the Wisconsin Retirement System
(WRS) and state employee health insurance options (Page 32, #5) was not included on the nonfiscal
policy list. Under the bill, a GPR sum sufficient appropriation is created in the Department
of Employee Trust Funds to conduct the legislatively directed studies. This appropriation is being
provided because EFT cannot utilize public employee trust fund monies for studies directed by the
Legislature. As a result, despite that fact that studies are typically included on the non-fiscal policy
list, this particular item was excluded.
BL/sas
Attachment
Page 3
NON-FISCAL POLICY ITEMS
CHILDREN AND FAMILIES
• Collective Bargaining for Day Care Providers (Page 4, #2)
HEALTH SERVICES
• Medical Assistance -- Study and Implementation of Program Changes (Page 8, #1)
• Wisconsin Quality Home Care Authority (Page 17, #6)
STATE CIVIL SERVICE SYSTEM
• Replacement of Classified Positions with Unclassified Positions (Page 23, #1)
• Transfer of Career Executive Employees (Page 26, #2)
• Discharge of State Employees (Page 26, #3)
WISCONSIN RETIREMENT SYSTEM AND PUBLIC SECTOR HEALTH INSURANCE
BENEFITS
• Group Insurance Board Membership Requirement (Page 36, #11)
COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AND EMPLOYMENT RELATIONS PROVISIONS
• Public Employee Collective Bargaining Modifications (Page 36, #1)
• Repeal Collective Bargaining Rights for University of Wisconsin System Faculty and
Academic Staff (Page 44, #2)
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Post 29 ? irrelevant nonsense....Reading it was a waste of time....Yurt doesn't need to disprove Zaps lies......Zap can't prove his assertions aren't bullshit to begin with.....
....
:lol:
And the fact remains.........STILL......
Just step up the plate.....show us all WHERE WALKER said that provision ( requiring unions to hold annual votes to continue representing their members ) was suppose to save money.....
and you'll have a winner....
Cancel 2018. 3
<-- sched 2, MJ sched 1
good lord....i don't care about the OP. i'm giving zappa a taste of his own medicine and you have taken it upon yourself to make a holy liberal crusade against the almighty and powerful yurt.
i don't care if zappa is right "this" time.....it doesn't change that he is always calling righties liars. do you comprende? hable espansol? you're taking this thread way to seriously.
Government employees in Wisconsin get amazing benefits. They get a generous defined-benefit pension with minimal contributions on their part. They also only pay 6 percent of the cost of their health-care premiums. Few taxpayers enjoy anything this generous.
Government employees get these benefits because of the special privileges government unions enjoy. Government workers in many states — including Wisconsin — must pay union dues or lose their jobs. The state subsidizes their fundraising by using its payroll system to collect these forced dues.
This gives the union movement billions of dollars, which it uses to elect favored candidates. The American Federation of State and County Municipal Employees (AFSCME) spent more than any other outside group in the last election. Government unions have used this political clout to hijack state government to serve their interests.
Governor Walker could have raised taxes or fired 6,000 state employees. Instead, like Governor Christie, he decided to actually fix the problems that brought Wisconsin to this point. His budget limits government collective bargaining to just wages, taking benefits and work rules off the bargaining table. He would also require voters to approve any raises above inflation. Walker would prevent government unions from forcing taxpayers to cough up for their gold-plated benefits.
Having done that, his budget requires state and local employees to contribute half of the cost of their pension contributions — roughly 6 percent of their salary. He also requires them to pay 12 percent of their health-care premiums. By private-sector standards these are modest changes, but they will help close Wisconsin’s budget gap.
Walker’s budget removes the special privileges that give government unions their outsize influence. His plan allows workers to quit their union without losing their job. He requires unions to demonstrate their support through an annual secret-ballot vote. He also ends the unfair taxpayer subsidy to union fundraising: The state and local government would stop collecting union dues with their payroll systems.
These measures do not go as far as they could, and Walker exempted the politically popular police and firefighters unions. Still, they represent a major step forward for Wisconsin.
Government employees get these benefits because of the special privileges government unions enjoy. Government workers in many states — including Wisconsin — must pay union dues or lose their jobs. The state subsidizes their fundraising by using its payroll system to collect these forced dues.
This gives the union movement billions of dollars, which it uses to elect favored candidates. The American Federation of State and County Municipal Employees (AFSCME) spent more than any other outside group in the last election. Government unions have used this political clout to hijack state government to serve their interests.
Governor Walker could have raised taxes or fired 6,000 state employees. Instead, like Governor Christie, he decided to actually fix the problems that brought Wisconsin to this point. His budget limits government collective bargaining to just wages, taking benefits and work rules off the bargaining table. He would also require voters to approve any raises above inflation. Walker would prevent government unions from forcing taxpayers to cough up for their gold-plated benefits.
Having done that, his budget requires state and local employees to contribute half of the cost of their pension contributions — roughly 6 percent of their salary. He also requires them to pay 12 percent of their health-care premiums. By private-sector standards these are modest changes, but they will help close Wisconsin’s budget gap.
Walker’s budget removes the special privileges that give government unions their outsize influence. His plan allows workers to quit their union without losing their job. He requires unions to demonstrate their support through an annual secret-ballot vote. He also ends the unfair taxpayer subsidy to union fundraising: The state and local government would stop collecting union dues with their payroll systems.
These measures do not go as far as they could, and Walker exempted the politically popular police and firefighters unions. Still, they represent a major step forward for Wisconsin.
zappasguitar
Well-known member
What bullshit.....where did Walker EVER say that THAT PARTICULAR PROVISION DID SAVE ANY MONEY ???
The only liar in this threat seems to be Zappas LYING guitar......
I would guess, it would save money in the future dealing with the unions .....
Governor Walker and Wisconsin Righties did what they did to unions because they said the state was BROKE and the ONLY WAY to remain fiscally solvent was to take drastic MONEY SAVING MEASURES.
Naturally you don't remember that...now.
Of course I remember that...and its true.....post #32 explains it in words that even you should understand.....
but the issue in this thread is one ONE, ONE, ONE ......1 provision that he says is not geared to saving any money.....he didn't lie, because he never made the claim that that particular provision did save any money.......
hence who is the liar....??? Seems to me its Zappa
You know you've been pwned....you and your pinhead friend TaiChi.....so give it a rest and save some face.
but the issue in this thread is one ONE, ONE, ONE ......1 provision that he says is not geared to saving any money.....he didn't lie, because he never made the claim that that particular provision did save any money.......
hence who is the liar....??? Seems to me its Zappa
You know you've been pwned....you and your pinhead friend TaiChi.....so give it a rest and save some face.
Cancel 2018. 3
<-- sched 2, MJ sched 1
why can't zappa address bravo's points? bravo's points indicate there was no lie, therefore, zappa is the liar. care to rebut zappa?
Zappa lunges at anything that remotely "looks like" a Republican lie, but then again HuffPo is one of his main sources for news and is it any wonder?
Just got back from the post office. Some young adults were setting up a station with information and signs requesting people donate money in an effort to dump Obama. Naturally I thought it was a Republican effort and was bowled over to discover it was young Democrats claiming that Obama is driving our country into bankruptcy and isn't addressing the financial crisis we are in. I gave them $20. Told me it was a nationwide effort by Democrats to call Obama out on his lies and to thwart his reelection bid. It was worth $20 just for the chuckle!
It's dinner time and Zap has hung the feed bag.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
good lord....i don't care about the OP. i'm giving zappa a taste of his own medicine and you have taken it upon yourself to make a holy liberal crusade against the almighty and powerful yurt.
i don't care if zappa is right "this" time.....it doesn't change that he is always calling righties liars. do you comprende? hable espansol? you're taking this thread way to seriously.
And there you have it, folks. Yurtle admits that he's just a beligerent clod who uses discussion theads just to nurse a personal grudge in a childish manner. No sense in further responding to Yurtle's nonsense.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
During the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform hearing, Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) asked Walker how the provision to strip the collective bargaining rights of public workers saved money for Wisconsin taxpayers.
"Let me ask you about some of the specific provisions in your proposals to strip collective bargaining rights," he said. "First, your proposal would require unions to hold annual votes to continue representing their own members. Can you please explain to me and members of this committee how much money this provision saves for your state budget?
"That particular part doesn't save any," Walker responded.
Legislative Fiscal BureauOne East Main, Suite 301 • Madison, WI 53703 • (608) 266-3847 • Fax: (608) 267-6873
February 14, 2011
TO: Representative Peter Barca
Room 201 West, State Capitol
FROM: Bob Lang, Director
SUBJECT: Non-Fiscal Policy Items Contained Within the Budget Adjustment Bill (SS SB 11)
NON-FISCAL POLICY ITEMS
WISCONSIN RETIREMENT SYSTEM AND PUBLIC SECTOR HEALTH INSURANCE
BENEFITS
• Group Insurance Board Membership Requirement (Page 36, #11)
COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AND EMPLOYMENT RELATIONS PROVISIONS
• Public Employee Collective Bargaining Modifications (Page 36, #1)
• Repeal Collective Bargaining Rights for University of Wisconsin System Faculty and
Academic Staff (Page 44, #2)
Gov. Walker, various GOP politicos and the neocon/teabagger punditry and peanut gallery all parroted the line that Walker's policy on Collective bargaining by unions (i.e., teachers) was a major key in reducing the state deficit. But as we can see by Walker's own admission regarding enforcing annual votes for union member reps and by the report issued by the Wisconsin Legislative Fiscal Bureau, Collective Bargaining/annual votes for union reps do not save the taxpayers money. So Walker is either a complete boob or a liar.
But FACTS and LOGIC have never been an issue with the willfully ignorant neocon parrots, punditry and leadership......they just keep repeating the same disproven/failed neocon/teabagger ideology ad nauseum, whether it's against their professed conservative values or not.
Once again, our intellectually bankrupt Bravo shoots a blank...but ever the insipidly stubborn little cuss that he is, Bravo will follow the route of the insane. I leave him to it.
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zappasguitar
Well-known member
good lord....i don't care about the OP. i'm giving zappa a taste of his own medicine and you have taken it upon yourself to make a holy liberal crusade against the almighty and powerful yurt.
i don't care if zappa is right "this" time.....it doesn't change that he is always calling righties liars. do you comprende? hable espansol? you're taking this thread way to seriously.
It's just another symptom of the deep-seated hatred for me that the Yurtard has.