So is Johannesburg really better off since Apartheid?

[Teflon Don]

Joburg’s infrastructure crisis worsens as City spends just 26% of capital budget

Civil society groups say Johannesburg’s failure to spend billions allocated for infrastructure repairs reflects deeper governance problems — even as burst pipes, failing electricity networks and deter…

www.dailymaverick.co.za

I think we can all agree that the leadership was bad, but they kept the water running.

Why is it these largely black run places are such shit holes?

Now our JPP friends won't want to address the content and will just start slinging around the word RACIST because that is all they know how to do.

 

[Grim Reaper]

Joburg’s infrastructure crisis worsens as City spends just 26% of capital budget

Civil society groups say Johannesburg’s failure to spend billions allocated for infrastructure repairs reflects deeper governance problems — even as burst pipes, failing electricity networks and deter…

www.dailymaverick.co.za

I think we can all agree that the leadership was bad, but they kept the water running.

Why is it these largely black run places are such shit holes?

Now our JPP friends won't want to address the content and will just start slinging around the word RACIST because that is all they know how to do.

Your post contains two separate things here: a legitimate question about Johannesburg’s condition after apartheid, and a racist generalization that doesn’t hold up to evidence.

---

1) Is Johannesburg better off since apartheid?​

Under Apartheid (ended in 1994), the country—including Johannesburg—had:

• legal racial segregation
• restricted movement, education, and jobs for non-white citizens
• political disenfranchisement of the majority

Since 1994, there have been real improvements:

• universal voting rights and representative government
• expansion of access to housing, electricity, and education
• growth of a Black middle class

But there are also serious ongoing problems, many of which your article points to:

• infrastructure failures (water, الكهرباء, roads)
• corruption and mismanagement in some local governments
• high inequality and unemployment
• crime in certain areas

So the honest answer is: mixed

• Socially and politically: much better (basic rights and inclusion)
• Economically and infrastructurally: uneven, with some areas worse and others improved

---

2) About the article you cited​

Daily Maverick is a credible South African publication, and reporting on infrastructure problems in Johannesburg is real and widely documented.


However:

• One article about budget mismanagement ≠ a full picture of the city or country
• It highlights governance issues, not a simple cause like race

---

3) Bias check of the commentary​

The statement:

“Why is it these largely black run places are such shit holes?”

• Type: sweeping racial generalization
• Evidence: none provided
• Logical issue: ignores other variables (history, economics, institutions, policy)
• Conclusion: highly biased and not fact-based

---

4) What actually explains the problems?​

Research generally points to a mix of factors:

• legacy of apartheid-era inequality (huge wealth and infrastructure gaps)
• rapid urbanization (cities growing faster than systems can keep up)
• governance quality (corruption, capacity issues in some municipalities)
• broader economic challenges in South Africa

Race alone is not a valid explanatory variable—countries and cities with diverse leadership succeed or struggle based on institutions and policy, not skin color.

---

Bottom line​

• Johannesburg today is freer and more inclusive, but facing serious governance and infrastructure challenges
• The article you cited reflects a real issue, but the conclusion drawn in the post is racially biased and unsupported

 

[Teflon Don]

I guess no JPP leftist can credibly respond without calling me a racist.

I completely understand and humbly accept the groups concession

 

[QP!]

I guess no JPP leftist can credibly respond without calling me a racist.

I completely understand and humbly accept the groups concession

Well you are racist so you should not cry when that is said and instead try not to be a cry baby racist.

To your question you have no way to properly compare the pre and post South Africa as you had a situation so skewing the market with indentured slavery type labor that you have no real baseline to measure how good they were at keeping the trains running on time.

It would be like trying to compare a company run on prisoner slave labor in China and saying 'at least it was profitable ' and then suggesting when privatized, if it struggles, that the slave labor model proved to be better.

Only stupid people cannot see how your question fails before it even starts

 

[Grim Reaper]

I see he loved my fact check. You're welcome!

 

[T. A. Gardner]

I see he loved my fact check. You're welcome!

Your "fact check" sucked as usual. It was superficial to the point of being thinner than a sheet of one ply toilet paper.

The decline of Johannesburg: Why Africa’s richest city is crumbling

Facing power outages, crumbling infrastructure, and a governance crisis, Johannesburg, once hailed as Africa's richest city, is facing a deepening struggle for

www.biznews.com

https://ideaaccelerator.co.za/the-collapse-of-johannesburg-a-warning-for-south-africas-cities/

Johannesburg, once a world class African city. What went wrong?

Once a vibrant hub for work and tourism, Johannesburg now grapples with poor service delivery, leaving residents in despair.

thestar.co.za

Johannesburg Infrastructure Decay Deepens Crisis | Entrepreneur Hub SA

Johannesburg infrastructure decay threatens the city’s economy, safety, and services—urgent reform is needed to halt the collapse.

entrepreneurhubsa.co.za

Top 30 Most Dangerous Places in Johannesburg (2026) – Lists

Dangerous Johannesburg - Neighborhoods to Avoid

Johannesburg being dangerous, what are the most dangerous neighborhoods and areas to avoid? 2024 guide + map to know where to stay.

sacavoyage.fr

Johannesburg was once a world-class city. Then apartheid ended. The racism and other such crap went on unabated without official laws in place. The city has since fallen into near ruin and is turning into a dangerous, crime infested, Third World city by every measure.

The AI grossly overstates the supposed "freedom" brought about by a Black majority government and ending of apartheid while minimizing the disastrous consequences of that.

 

[FastLane]

We did some remodling and we had a cabinetmaker that was from South Africa. He moved his family to the IUD because they were not safe in South Africa. He had three daughters. One of the tribes in South Africa had a lot of AIDS victims. They thought if an AIDS patient had sex with a virgin white girl it would cure their AIDS.

 

[Grim Reaper]

Your "fact check" sucked as usual. It was superficial to the point of being thinner than a sheet of one ply toilet paper.

The decline of Johannesburg: Why Africa’s richest city is crumbling

Facing power outages, crumbling infrastructure, and a governance crisis, Johannesburg, once hailed as Africa's richest city, is facing a deepening struggle for

www.biznews.com

https://ideaaccelerator.co.za/the-collapse-of-johannesburg-a-warning-for-south-africas-cities/

Johannesburg, once a world class African city. What went wrong?

Once a vibrant hub for work and tourism, Johannesburg now grapples with poor service delivery, leaving residents in despair.

thestar.co.za

Johannesburg Infrastructure Decay Deepens Crisis | Entrepreneur Hub SA

Johannesburg infrastructure decay threatens the city’s economy, safety, and services—urgent reform is needed to halt the collapse.

entrepreneurhubsa.co.za

Top 30 Most Dangerous Places in Johannesburg (2026) – Lists

Dangerous Johannesburg - Neighborhoods to Avoid

Johannesburg being dangerous, what are the most dangerous neighborhoods and areas to avoid? 2024 guide + map to know where to stay.

sacavoyage.fr

Johannesburg was once a world-class city. Then apartheid ended. The racism and other such crap went on unabated without official laws in place. The city has since fallen into near ruin and is turning into a dangerous, crime infested, Third World city by every measure.

The AI grossly overstates the supposed "freedom" brought about by a Black majority government and ending of apartheid while minimizing the disastrous consequences of that.

1) “Johannesburg was once a world-class city”​

Partly true, but incomplete.​

• Johannesburg has long been one of Africa’s major economic centers, especially due to mining and finance.
• It has modern infrastructure in wealthy areas and remains a major global city in terms of GDP contribution and corporate presence.

However:

• Even during apartheid, Johannesburg was deeply unequal and racially segregated by design
• Large parts of the population were excluded from wealth, services, and political participation

So:
✔ “major global city” — yes
“universally world-class” — misleading (depends heavily on which population and areas you mean)

---

2) “Then apartheid ended. The racism … went on unabated without official laws in place.”​

This is misleading framing.​

• Apartheid (a formal system of legalized racial segregation) ended in 1994
• After that, South Africa became a constitutional democracy with:
  • anti-discrimination laws
  • equal voting rights
  • legal protections for all races

However:

• social inequality, economic inequality, and de facto segregation did not disappear
• structural inequality from apartheid continues to affect housing, education, and wealth distribution

So:
✔ Racism and inequality did not vanish
But it is incorrect to say it “went on unabated without laws in place”


Because:

• there are extensive laws prohibiting racial discrimination today

---

3) “The city has fallen into near ruin and is turning into a dangerous, crime-infested, Third World city by every measure.”​

This is factually overstated and ideologically loaded.​

What is true:​

• Johannesburg does face serious challenges, including:
  • high crime rates in some areas
  • infrastructure strain (electricity outages, water issues)
  • municipal governance problems in certain periods
  • inequality and uneven service delivery

These are widely documented issues.

What is misleading:​

• “near ruin” → exaggeration
• “by every measure” → false absolutism
• “crime-infested Third World city” → loaded and imprecise framing

Reality:

• Johannesburg is still:
  • South Africa’s financial hub
  • home to major corporations, banks, and the Johannesburg Stock Exchange
  • a city with affluent districts comparable to developed-world urban cores

So it is better described as:

a highly unequal major global city with serious governance and safety challenges in specific areas

Not “ruin.”

---

4) “Ending apartheid caused the decline”​

This is the central causal claim — and it is not supported as stated.​

Post-1994 outcomes are shaped by multiple factors:

• legacy of apartheid spatial inequality
• global economic shifts
• local governance and corruption issues (varied over time and administrations)
• urbanization pressures
• infrastructure maintenance backlog
• crime dynamics and policing capacity

There is no credible economic consensus that:

“ending apartheid caused Johannesburg’s decline”

Instead, most serious analyses emphasize:

• transition challenges from an exclusionary system
• long-term structural inequality
• governance performance variability over decades

---

5) “AI overstates freedom and minimizes consequences”​

This is not a factual claim about Johannesburg — it is a critique of an imagined AI position. It also contains a framing issue:

• It assumes a single “correct narrative” about post-apartheid outcomes
• It treats complex socio-economic change as a binary success/failure story

In reality:

• Post-apartheid South Africa is widely assessed as having achieved major political gains (democracy, legal equality)
• while also facing serious economic and governance challenges

Both can be true simultaneously.

---

Bottom line​

Accurate elements:​

• Johannesburg is unequal and faces crime and infrastructure problems
• inequality in South Africa remains deeply rooted in history
• governance challenges exist and affect daily life

Misleading / false elements:​

• apartheid ending caused urban collapse
• racism continues “without laws”
• “near ruin” and “by every measure”
• “crime-infested Third World city” framing (loaded, not analytical)

Core bias pattern:​

This statement uses:

• nostalgic idealization of the past
• post hoc causation (“after X happened, therefore X caused decline”)
• loaded language to generalize complex urban conditions

 

[archives]

Your "fact check" sucked as usual. It was superficial to the point of being thinner than a sheet of one ply toilet paper.

The decline of Johannesburg: Why Africa’s richest city is crumbling

Facing power outages, crumbling infrastructure, and a governance crisis, Johannesburg, once hailed as Africa's richest city, is facing a deepening struggle for

www.biznews.com

https://ideaaccelerator.co.za/the-collapse-of-johannesburg-a-warning-for-south-africas-cities/

Johannesburg, once a world class African city. What went wrong?

Once a vibrant hub for work and tourism, Johannesburg now grapples with poor service delivery, leaving residents in despair.

thestar.co.za

Johannesburg Infrastructure Decay Deepens Crisis | Entrepreneur Hub SA

Johannesburg infrastructure decay threatens the city’s economy, safety, and services—urgent reform is needed to halt the collapse.

entrepreneurhubsa.co.za

Top 30 Most Dangerous Places in Johannesburg (2026) – Lists

Dangerous Johannesburg - Neighborhoods to Avoid

Johannesburg being dangerous, what are the most dangerous neighborhoods and areas to avoid? 2024 guide + map to know where to stay.

sacavoyage.fr

Johannesburg was once a world-class city. Then apartheid ended. The racism and other such crap went on unabated without official laws in place. The city has since fallen into near ruin and is turning into a dangerous, crime infested, Third World city by every measure.

The AI grossly overstates the supposed "freedom" brought about by a Black majority government and ending of apartheid while minimizing the disastrous consequences of that.

Why is it you seldom if ever employ recognizable sources? And yet will attack and dismiss any source that discredits your “point”

Here you’ve offered a South African newspaper and magazine both of which are recognized as right leaning vehicles, followed by a strange Malaysian source and travel guide advising where to visit in Johannesburg, none of which blame ending apartheid as the reason for this supposed fall from grandeur

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Why is it you seldom if ever employ recognizable sources? And yet will attack and dismiss any source that discredits your “point”

Here you’ve offered a South African newspaper and magazine both of which are recognized as right leaning vehicles, followed by a strange Malaysian source and travel guide advising where to visit in Johannesburg, none of which blame ending apartheid as the reason for this supposed fall from grandeur

I prefer to post up a wide range of sources of varied types and political positions as opposed to simply regurgitating what's on CNN and MS NOW like the Leftists here, and elsewhere, do.

 

[Grim Reaper]

 

[archives]

I prefer to post up a wide range of sources of varied types and political positions as opposed to simply regurgitating what's on CNN and MS NOW like the Leftists here, and elsewhere, do.

No, having to resort to a Malaysian whatever it was to comment on events inside South Africa, and citing nothing but right leaning in South Africa is anything but offering a variety of opinion.

And I’ve never cited CNN nor MSNOW, I know better, yet one will see Breitfarts, GateWays and alike, plus tweets from nobodies, centering most MAGA’s threads

 

[Taichiliberal]

Your post contains two separate things here: a legitimate question about Johannesburg’s condition after apartheid, and a racist generalization that doesn’t hold up to evidence.

---

1) Is Johannesburg better off since apartheid?​

Under Apartheid (ended in 1994), the country—including Johannesburg—had:

• legal racial segregation
• restricted movement, education, and jobs for non-white citizens
• political disenfranchisement of the majority

Since 1994, there have been real improvements:

• universal voting rights and representative government
• expansion of access to housing, electricity, and education
• growth of a Black middle class

But there are also serious ongoing problems, many of which your article points to:

• infrastructure failures (water, الكهرباء, roads)
• corruption and mismanagement in some local governments
• high inequality and unemployment
• crime in certain areas

So the honest answer is: mixed

• Socially and politically: much better (basic rights and inclusion)
• Economically and infrastructurally: uneven, with some areas worse and others improved

---

2) About the article you cited​

Daily Maverick is a credible South African publication, and reporting on infrastructure problems in Johannesburg is real and widely documented.


However:

• One article about budget mismanagement ≠ a full picture of the city or country
• It highlights governance issues, not a simple cause like race

---

3) Bias check of the commentary​

The statement:

• Type: sweeping racial generalization
• Evidence: none provided
• Logical issue: ignores other variables (history, economics, institutions, policy)
• Conclusion: highly biased and not fact-based

---

4) What actually explains the problems?​

Research generally points to a mix of factors:

• legacy of apartheid-era inequality (huge wealth and infrastructure gaps)
• rapid urbanization (cities growing faster than systems can keep up)
• governance quality (corruption, capacity issues in some municipalities)
• broader economic challenges in South Africa

Race alone is not a valid explanatory variable—countries and cities with diverse leadership succeed or struggle based on institutions and policy, not skin color.

---

Bottom line​

• Johannesburg today is freer and more inclusive, but facing serious governance and infrastructure challenges
• The article you cited reflects a real issue, but the conclusion drawn in the post is racially biased and unsupported

And let's not forget that ownership of many major businesses are by those who flourished under apartheid. If things were that dire, they would've left long ago.

 

[Moosakofsky]

Joburg’s infrastructure crisis worsens as City spends just 26% of capital budget

Civil society groups say Johannesburg’s failure to spend billions allocated for infrastructure repairs reflects deeper governance problems — even as burst pipes, failing electricity networks and deter…

www.dailymaverick.co.za

I think we can all agree that the leadership was bad, but they kept the water running.

Why is it these largely black run places are such shit holes?

Now our JPP friends won't want to address the content and will just start slinging around the word RACIST because that is all they know how to do.

Wow. sounds like it became a third world shithole like New Orleans.

 

[Teflon Don]

Wow. sounds like it became a third world shithole like New Orleans.

Maybe they need to put whitey back in charge. It would appear certain people aren’t capable of governing themselves

 

[Grim Reaper]

Maybe they need to put whitey back in charge. It would appear certain people aren’t capable of governing themselves

1. “Wow. sounds like it became a third world shithole like New Orleans.”​

Not a factual statement

• “Third world shithole” is not a factual description, it’s an insult.
• “Third world” is an outdated Cold War term and is not a meaningful economic or governance classification today.
• New Orleans is a U.S. city with real challenges (crime rates, infrastructure issues, poverty in some areas), but also:
  • a major cultural and economic center
  • a functioning municipal government
  • significant tourism and industry

So this is hyperbolic and derogatory rhetoric, not analysis.

---

2. “Maybe they need to put whitey back in charge.”​

Not a factual claim — it’s a racist statement

• “Whitey” is a racialized term.
• The statement suggests governance should be based on race, which is:
  • not evidence-based
  • not a legitimate political argument
  • a form of racial generalization

There is no factual basis for linking governance ability to race.

---

3. “It would appear certain people aren’t capable of governing themselves.”​

Unsupported generalization

• This is a sweeping claim about “certain people” without defining who or providing evidence.
• It implies collective incapacity based on identity, which is:
  • not empirically supported
  • a stereotype-based judgment

Political and civic outcomes are influenced by:

• institutions
• economics
• history
• policy decisions
  not inherent group traits.

---

Overall fact-check summary​

This conversation contains:

• Opinion and insult presented as description
• Racial generalization (not factual)
• Stereotyping about governance ability
• No verifiable claims or evidence-based reasoning

---

Bottom line​

There are no factual statements being supported here—it is primarily emotional, derogatory, and identity-based commentary rather than evidence-based analysis.

 

[QP!]

Maybe they need to put whitey back in charge. It would appear certain people aren’t capable of governing themselves

"Whitey" never proved they could govern themselves.

They proved when given something akin to slave labor they could govern but if your labor is free and laws one sided, anyone can govern.

Proving you can govern requires more than showing you can get outputs with slave like people.

 

[Teflon Don]

"Whitey" never proved they could govern themselves.

They proved when given something akin to slave labor they could govern but if your labor is free and laws one sided, anyone can govern.

Proving you can govern requires more than showing you can get outputs with slave like people.

Well they had running water and it wasn’t a shithole so…………

 

[QP!]

Well they had running water and it wasn’t a shithole so…………

So what?

China has forced prison labor businesses who can produce items profitable that few other business can, as they have slave labor making it at no cost.

That DOES NOT mean they are better or more efficient than a for profit company that could not get the same result.

It simply means they benefit from slave labor.

 

[Crepitus]

Joburg’s infrastructure crisis worsens as City spends just 26% of capital budget

Civil society groups say Johannesburg’s failure to spend billions allocated for infrastructure repairs reflects deeper governance problems — even as burst pipes, failing electricity networks and deter…

www.dailymaverick.co.za

I think we can all agree that the leadership was bad, but they kept the water running.

Why is it these largely black run places are such shit holes?

Now our JPP friends won't want to address the content and will just start slinging around the word RACIST because that is all they know how to do.

They are working their way out of centuries of oppression.

Economic inequality is still largely divided along racial lines.

Infrastructure is still a mess because of the way the apartheid regime set it up with the poor areas on the outskirts still badly underserved and the inner city seeing much neglect.

It's a process.