Sending Old Fighter Jets to Ukraine Is a Terrible Idea

anatta

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security assistance is more than just gifting equipment
it is a complex question of creating or supporting capabilities and answering the right questions.
When it is done wrong, it can create new problems.
And in a powder keg like Ukraine, where the war could explode into a NATO-Russia conflict,
it is a question of supporting capabilities without causing a direct clash between nuclear powers.

the idea that NATO’s Eastern European members should donate MiG-29 Fulcrum aircraft to Ukraine,
as the airframe is operated by Ukrainian forces.
Recently, Poland offered to fly its aging MiGs to Ramstein Air Base in Germany, where U.S. forces would facilitate their transfer to Ukrainian pilots, who would fly the aircraft back to Ukraine.
Some have descended further down this rabbit hole by suggesting the United States deliver its own A-10 Thunderbolt II attack aircraft to Ukraine—prompted in part by a long Russian jam of vehicles that has now mostly cleared.

Successful security assistance begins with an identified requirement:
What is the battlefield result Ukraine needs to achieve?
Are Ukrainian forces unable to intercept Russian aircraft, or are they searching for ways to increase their assaults on Russia’s creaking logistics convoys and bogged-down tanks?
Would more planes make a difference in either respect?
These questions are absent from public conversation, but U.S. defense officials state repeatedly that the move would be more risk than reward.

Most of Ukraine’s fighter aircraft are still in the fight, with Ukraine’s Air Force flying approximately five to 10 missions per day using a pool of about 50 jets. By contrast, Russian aircraft are flying nearly 200 missions per day but keeping their planes primarily within Russian airspace. Both sides are likely exercising extreme caution to avoid ground-based air defense systems. Given this knowledge, a score of Soviet-era air superiority assets would not meaningfully improve Ukraine’s military situation.

Publicly available information does not seem to indicate Ukraine is short of air superiority—open source intelligence site Oryx lists confirmation of seven fighters destroyed since the start of the Russian invasion—or that air superiority fighters are a key element of Ukraine’s defense plan....
https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/03/14/ukraine-poland-jets-fighters/
 
Why spend money buying old, worn-out Soviet era Jets?

Cheap, modern Drone Warfare is the way to go. You could probably buy a thousand Drones for one old Jet.
 
Tom Cotton, Lindsey Graham, Romney have joined David Frum and Max boot and Bill Kristol
along with many Dems to shoot now and ask questions later

It would just probably get Uk pilots killed as Russisn fighters can see them much farther away the MiG- 29
 
Why spend money buying old, worn-out Soviet era Jets?

Cheap, modern Drone Warfare is the way to go. You could probably buy a thousand Drones for one old Jet.
drones only target surface targets. I dont think they have air to air capability yet
Jets can deliver a much larger and quicker payloads
 
recommendation come from Pentagon.
The political parties are busily one-upping each other to be most gung ho

'Biggest Bang for the Buck'. Ukraine isn't paying for any of this. So it's real easy to just wave your hand and say "We need 30 Jets".
Try a thousand Drones. See how that turns out.
 
drones only target surface targets. I dont think they have air to air capability yet
Jets can deliver a much larger and quicker payloads

Hush - you're speaking to the noted eastern European military authority, Ivan Jaginov.
 
drones only target surface targets. I dont think they have air to air capability yet
Jets can deliver a much larger and quicker payloads

"The FIM-92 Stinger is a man-portable air-defense system that operates as an infrared homing surface-to-air missile. It can be adapted to fire from a wide variety of ground vehicles and helicopters. Wikipedia
Manufacturer: Raytheon Missiles & Defense"
 
'Biggest Bang for the Buck'. Ukraine isn't paying for any of this. So it's real easy to just wave your hand and say "We need 30 Jets".
Try a thousand Drones. See how that turns out.
id rather we tried to mediate peace talks. Biden just called Putin a "war criminal" so the USA cant do it.
China would be disaster.

Maybe get in touch with Modi and see if he wants to handle a hot potato..somebody has to set up talks!
 
Why spend money buying old, worn-out Soviet era Jets?

Cheap, modern Drone Warfare is the way to go. You could probably buy a thousand Drones for one old Jet.

You do realize that drones can be jammed?

https://breakingdefense.com/2021/05/jamming-strikes-osce-drones-tracking-russian-forces/
https://news.jammer-mart.com/2020/07/07/how-to-jam-military-jammer/
https://www.msnbc.com/hallie-jackso...ming-some-u-s-drones-over-syria-1207351875977
https://www.maritime-executive.com/editorials/military-hardware-proves-vulnerable-to-gps-jamming

Anything that puts out/receives a radio signal - can be jammed.
That (I believe) is one of the main reasons that militaries are so reluctant to produce unmanned, combat aircraft.
 
id rather we tried to mediate peace talks. Biden just called Putin a "war criminal" so the USA cant do it.
China would be disaster.

Maybe get in touch with Modi and see if he wants to handle a hot potato..somebody has to set up talks!

Or ... Putin could just STOP bombing his neighbor.
 

I'm sure they aren't perfect, but they are cheap compared to losing a multi-million dollar Jet.
 
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