Scientific Evidence of God

Dixie said:
I never said chimps weren't afraid of death, but last I checked, they weren't teaching Sunday School classes. No other creature depends on spirituality to cope with death and the other mysteries of life. In fact, they seem oblivious to death, the unknown, the unexplained... they don't really seem to care, but humans can't cope with it and have to 'invent' spirituality... it doesn't make sense to me.
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I'll ignore the fact that you did say chimps weren't afraid of death. The reason they're not teaching Sunday schools has a lot to do with the fact that they can't build them, and that they really don't have teachers in general or any kind of buildings. There are reasons for that, and for the fact that man does. An advanced cerebral cortex is one of those reasons.

You do understand that we're different from most animals in reasoning ability, correct? It's not just spiritual issues. It's how to fix a car, too; oh....and how to BUILD a car, as well. And make fire, and make a wheel, and play basketball, and contemplate retirement...pretty much everything.
 
Onceler said:
"I never said chimps weren't afraid of death"

Actually, yeah, you did.

You're kind of schizophrenic or something; it's very weird when you contradict yourself in 2 posts like that...
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This is what I said:
Yeah, kinda... More importantly, or to put it another way, why are chimps not afraid of death? Here is our closest genetic ancestor, and he seems to have absolutely no problem with death, it doesn't cause fear, it doesn't cause the chimp to pray or believe in God, he just eats another banana, and life goes on. So where did man acquire this "fear of death" attribute?

Again, I think you PRESUME man adopted spirituality because he was afraid of death, but you don't know that man didn't adopt spirituality first, and then become afraid of death because of it.
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Now I realize the point went skipping comfortably across the top of your pinhead, but what I am asking is, why don't chimps have to develop an equivalent device to spirituality to cope with death? As best we can tell, they don't really concern themselves with understanding death or the unknown, they are oblivious to it. How you can determine that they fear death when they don't even comprehend it, is beyond me. And furthermore, where did this attribute evolve from? Assuming Darwin is correct, and we acquire inherent traits through evolution and natural selection, where did this 'fear of death and the unknown' come from?
 
Dixie said:
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Now I realize the point went skipping comfortably across the top of your pinhead, but what I am asking is, why don't chimps have to develop an equivalent device to spirituality to cope with death? As best we can tell, they don't really concern themselves with understanding death or the unknown, they are oblivious to it. How you can determine that they fear death when they don't even comprehend it, is beyond me. And furthermore, where did this attribute evolve from? Assuming Darwin is correct, and we acquire inherent traits through evolution and natural selection, where did this 'fear of death and the unknown' come from?
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See my next post. I've told you dozens of times, but you always ignore it, because it doesn't fit your "theory."

Advanced. Cerebral. Cortex.
 
Onceler said:
I'll ignore the fact that you did say chimps weren't afraid of death. The reason they're not teaching Sunday schools has a lot to do with the fact that they can't build them, and that they really don't have teachers in general or any kind of buildings. There are reasons for that, and for the fact that man does. An advanced cerebral cortex is one of those reasons.

You do understand that we're different from most animals in reasoning ability, correct? It's not just spiritual issues. It's how to fix a car, too; oh....and how to BUILD a car, as well. And make fire, and make a wheel, and play basketball, and contemplate retirement...pretty much everything.
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Well you would think chimps would have at least sent a chimp to the moon by now, or something! They have been through astronaut training by NASA and everything! But, alas, they have not gotten their space program off the ground, and the entire chimp community doesn't seem too concerned with that accomplishment.

I do realize we are remarkably different from other animals, Onzies... that is kinda the whole point! I can understand how fins became our arms, or how we lost our tails, but evolution doesn't explain where we got this amazing cerebral cortex from. No other species seems to have one, and it must have evolved from somewhere. Darwin maintained, if you find attributes which could not have been refined from a preceding attribute, it couldn't be the product of evolution.... I didn't say this, Darwin said it. So what preceded the advanced cerebral cortex in humans, what preceded human spirituality, in the evolutionary chain? Unless you can provide an answer to this, we must conclude that it remains a mystery.
 
Onceler said:
See my next post. I've told you dozens of times, but you always ignore it, because it doesn't fit your "theory."

Advanced. Cerebral. Cortex.
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So you claim that mankind had to develop an elaborate invisible fictional entity and a never-ending series of rituals devoted to this entity, in order to cope with death and the unknown, even though all other animals seem to cope with death and the unknown without this, and it is because we have an advanced cerebral cortex, that we have gone to so much trouble?

Hmmmm.... interesting!
 
Dixie said:
Well you would think chimps would have at least sent a chimp to the moon by now, or something! They have been through astronaut training by NASA and everything! But, alas, they have not gotten their space program off the ground, and the entire chimp community doesn't seem too concerned with that accomplishment.

I do realize we are remarkably different from other animals, Onzies... that is kinda the whole point! I can understand how fins became our arms, or how we lost our tails, but evolution doesn't explain where we got this amazing cerebral cortex from. No other species seems to have one, and it must have evolved from somewhere. Darwin maintained, if you find attributes which could not have been refined from a preceding attribute, it couldn't be the product of evolution.... I didn't say this, Darwin said it. So what preceded the advanced cerebral cortex in humans, what preceded human spirituality, in the evolutionary chain? Unless you can provide an answer to this, we must conclude that it remains a mystery.
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Actually, it does explain that, in great, great detail. It was an adaptation that allowed us to survive against predators that were much better equipped physically.

But, you have never studied evolution or made an effort to; you just make blind pronouncements like that & hope they're true...
 
Onceler said:
Actually, it does explain that, in great, great detail. It was an adaptation that allowed us to survive against predators that were much better equipped physically.

But, you have never studied evolution or made an effort to; you just make blind pronouncements like that & hope they're true...
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I'll ask you again... WHERE DID WE ADAPT IT FROM???
 
Dixie said:
I'll ask you again... WHERE DID WE ADAPT IT FROM???
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Your ignorance about the basics of evolution never ceases to astound.

It's just another layer of the brain. The brain has been adding layers since it was 1st developed in the most primitive organisms. It's not great mystery; it didn't "magically" appear. It was just another adaptation.

You should study the subject if you want to talk about it this much...
 
Onceler said:
Your ignorance about the basics of evolution never ceases to astound.

It's just another layer of the brain. The brain has been adding layers since it was 1st developed in the most primitive organisms. It's not great mystery; it didn't "magically" appear. It was just another adaptation.

You should study the subject if you want to talk about it this much...
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I have studied it, and that is why I am baffled by your argument. My understanding from Darwin is, traits evolve down, not up. If an attribute is not already present, it can't invent itself and evolve into the species, and that is what you are attempting to claim. Again I will ask, adapted from what? You have to begin with a basis of something, to have human spirituality evolve from, it can't simply create itself. Thus far, nothing has been suggested, you just keep making the erroneous assertion that we "adapted" this attribute, and that completely contradicts Darwin's principles. Of course, it's not like you are clinging to science in any other aspect of this debate, so why should this surprise me?
 
Dixie said:
I have studied it, and that is why I am baffled by your argument. My understanding from Darwin is, traits evolve down, not up. If an attribute is not already present, it can't invent itself and evolve into the species, and that is what you are attempting to claim. Again I will ask, adapted from what? You have to begin with a basis of something, to have human spirituality evolve from, it can't simply create itself. Thus far, nothing has been suggested, you just keep making the erroneous assertion that we "adapted" this attribute, and that completely contradicts Darwin's principles. Of course, it's not like you are clinging to science in any other aspect of this debate, so why should this surprise me?
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LOL

Wow, do you not understand evolution.

Evolution, from the beginning, is basically all about attributes that aren't already present, presenting themselves.

Please study, and they re-join the discussion...
 
Onceler said:
LOL

Wow, do you not understand evolution.

Evolution, from the beginning, is basically all about attributes that aren't already present, presenting themselves.

Please study, and they re-join the discussion...
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Nope sorry, that isn't part of evolution and has never been theorized by Darwin or anyone else for that matter. Attributes are acquired from some previous attribute, they don't present themselves, there is no logical explanation for how they would. A wing could evolve into an arm, but an arm couldn't just magically pop in from nowhere because a human needed it. I know you may need for evolution to work that way, in order to make your anti-god theory work, but that's just not the case. read Origin of the Species, it explains this fully.
 
Dixie said:
Well you would think chimps would have at least sent a chimp to the moon by now, or something! They have been through astronaut training by NASA and everything! But, alas, they have not gotten their space program off the ground, and the entire chimp community doesn't seem too concerned with that accomplishment.
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ADVANCED. CEREBRAL. CORTEX.
 
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