Scientific Evidence of God

Lowaicue said:
How can one hate that which has never existed? I hate the way that obscenities and offensive language are used by americans AND the British and labelled 'free speech' or 'that is the way we are, take it or leave it.'
My comments about the American use of language and the propensity of Americans to disregard the feelings and cultures of others (mostly their betters) is sometimes tongue in cheek and sometimes simply a mirror held up to small minded people like you (or the way you seem to want to portray yourself) that you may understand that you are not universally loved and admired.

Insert here: I/we don't give a shit what you foreigners think of us.
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Wow... so now you attempt to further denigrate Americans by pretending we don't have a unique culture here? Like I said, we get it, you don't like us. Thanks.

What is funny, it that YOU seem to think that YOU should be able to dictate what is offensive and what is not. That we should listen to you because in your warped little world you seem to think you are better than us. You are not. While I do agree that Americans do indeed drop swear words with an ever greater regularity and wish it would recede, words like retarded are not in the same category.

To proclaim 'retarded' is offensive (as you did) is nothing more than another example of some nut going over board on PC. It is not different than saying someone is an amputee. It describes a condition. It is offensive to those with the condition to hear all the PC bullshit that people like you project onto the world. Trying to make light of their condition by making the words to describe it 'make you feel warmer and cozier inside'. Because that is all you are doing.

Getting your panties in a bunch because the word is used in a way that you don't approve of is your right. But you are correct, we really do not care what you think of us... just as you could care less that you sound to many of us like you have a rather large stick up your ass.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
????....evolutionists don't believe that humans evolved from single cell creatures?......
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First, there is no such thing as an evolutionist. It is a pejorative term used by the scientific illiterate, ussually creationist. There is a scientific field of study called Biology in which the theory of evolution by natural selection is a foundational theory.

Second, you didn't state that biologist believe humans evolved from single cells, you said they believed they evolved from amoeba. That is an incorrect statement. Biologist believe, tentatively, that all living things on our planet today share a common ancestry.
 
Superfreak said:
Wow... so now you attempt to further denigrate Americans by pretending we don't have a unique culture here? Like I said, we get it, you don't like us. Thanks.

What is funny, it that YOU seem to think that YOU should be able to dictate what is offensive and what is not. That we should listen to you because in your warped little world you seem to think you are better than us. You are not. While I do agree that Americans do indeed drop swear words with an ever greater regularity and wish it would recede, words like retarded are not in the same category.

To proclaim 'retarded' is offensive (as you did) is nothing more than another example of some nut going over board on PC. It is not different than saying someone is an amputee. It describes a condition. It is offensive to those with the condition to hear all the PC bullshit that people like you project onto the world. Trying to make light of their condition by making the words to describe it 'make you feel warmer and cozier inside'. Because that is all you are doing.

Getting your panties in a bunch because the word is used in a way that you don't approve of is your right. But you are correct, we really do not care what you think of us... just as you could care less that you sound to many of us like you have a rather large stick up your ass.
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http://www.entertonement.com/clips/wsxgnqbkkl--Hysterical-laughingHuman-People-laugh-Laughs-
 
Superfreak said:
LMAO... so you have 'Scientific evidence OF God' but that has nothing to do with existence?

No, I did not ask you to provide evidence of Gods existence. You proclaimed you had scientific evidence 'OF God'.

You are now trying to spin your way out of it. You have provided no scientific evidence of a power higher than self. All you have done is shown that man can be spiritual. That is not evidence of anything other than man has created FAITH in things he does not understand.

While I do believe there is likely higher intelligence in the universe than what we have here on earth, there is no evidence to support that.
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Well, I simply clarified an erroneous misconception, I am not spinning or changing anything, the title of the thread is "Scientific Evidence of God" and that is what I meant. It is pinhead erroneous assumption I meant "God's existence" and I have corrected that error. Now you claim I am spinning. It's not me spinning, it is you running around me in circles real fast, just makes it look like I'm spinning to you.

I did indeed provide solid scientific evidence, in the form of animal behavior. That is not supernatural, it is perfectly natural and we study it in science all the time. I did more than show man can be spiritual, that should be self-evident, and I don't think it's any big revelation to anyone that man is capable of worship. There is a stark difference between being able to do something, and consistently exhibiting a characteristic behavior throughout your existence on this planet. Not only can man be spiritual, man is devoutly spiritual, and has been that way for as long as he has existed.

Scientific observation of other species suggests there is a fundamental reason for the behavior, else it wouldn't be consistent and constant over time. Behavioral patterns are important in determining a great many things, and there is nothing supernatural about that.

If we take the phenomenon of worship in humans, and we examine it in a purely objective way, without our personal prejudices interfering, it becomes quite clear, mankind has a fundamental need to exhibit this behavior. Science must continue to ask, what is this fundamental need, and why? So far, your lame explanations just don't cut it.

It doesn't make sense that mankind has adopted this behavior merely to "explain the unexplained" because, first, spirituality doesn't explain the unexplained, the questions still remain in spite of spirituality. That being the case, mankind would have long ago realized that spirituality doesn't explain the unexplained, in fact, it sometimes makes the unexplained more confusing and difficult to understand. Secondly, you've not rectified why men have a need to explain the unexplained. Do other higher primates have a need to explain the unexplained, or do they not really give two shits? Yes, most higher primates do exhibit curiosity, but unlike man, they don't need to worship to satisfy it. If there were something 'natural' about mans behavior, if it were as simple as man trying to explain the unexplained, we would surely see some evidence of this behavior in other higher primates, to some degree. We don't!

Furthermore, the billions and billions of people who are spiritual, never argue they have faith to explain the unexplained. I've never heard a religious person say that, have you? Now, I do hear tell of amazing strength, courage, inspiration and conviction, which are often attributed to the spiritual belief. So it scientifically appears the behavior is more than simply mans way of explaining the unexplained. (which coincidentally, also hasn't been explained.)
 
Your interpretation of "explain the unexplained" is simplistic.

Take death for example. No one really knows what happens, no one ever has. Believing in God doesn't "explain" what happens - it just hands off the fear of what happens, so we don't have to worry about it as much. Instead of angst-ridden uncertainty, we just say "it's in God's hands," and we can get on with our lives.

Sun worship is more of an example of what you are talking about; people not really knowing what the sun is, so they basically turn it into a deity.

The idea of a God is comforting to an otherwise existentialist state of being; it can add meaning to an otherwise mundane life. That's why religion was huge in the middle ages; most lives were basically devoid of hope, and the thought of a beautiful afterlife kept people going (and kept the church coffers full).
 
LMAO... so you have 'Scientific evidence OF God' but that has nothing to do with existence?
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Let's establish some facts. The word "exist" means, "to be in a state of physical existence." I have no scientific evidence to suggest physical existence of God, and I don't know that anyone has ever claimed God physically exists. Jesus Christ would be about the closest you could come to that, and I don't know of any scientific experiments we could do on Jesus to determine if he was the physical existence of God. Again, how would science measure a God anyway? So proving the EXISTENCE of God, is quite impossible to do with science, and irrelevant anyway, because no one is claiming a physical God exists.

We are discussing the perfectly natural phenomenon of animal behavior, and worship in humans. We are examining what that means, and why that phenomenon persists. While I presented valid "evidence" of God, it doesn't "prove God exists!" It's merely evidence, you can draw whatever conclusions you like from the evidence.
 
Dixie said:
"Well, I simply clarified an erroneous misconception, I am not spinning or changing anything, the title of the thread is "Scientific Evidence of God" and that is what I meant. It is pinhead erroneous assumption I meant "God's existence" and I have corrected that error. Now you claim I am spinning. It's not me spinning, it is you running around me in circles real fast, just makes it look like I'm spinning to you. "

Again you simpleton.... to proclaim 'evidence of God' has nothing to do with God's 'existence' is complete lunacy. You cannot have 'evidence' of God that does not tie to the existence of God.

"I did indeed provide solid scientific evidence, in the form of animal behavior. That is not supernatural, it is perfectly natural and we study it in science all the time. I did more than show man can be spiritual, that should be self-evident, and I don't think it's any big revelation to anyone that man is capable of worship. There is a stark difference between being able to do something, and consistently exhibiting a characteristic behavior throughout your existence on this planet. Not only can man be spiritual, man is devoutly spiritual, and has been that way for as long as he has existed. "

Only in your fantasy world did you provide any sort of evidence of God. No one is arguing that man is capable of worship. We are arguing that capability does NOT provide any 'evidence of GOD'. Also, you have not shown that man has been 'spiritual' for as long as he existed. That is pure speculation on your part. Which again is NOT scientific evidence of God.


"Scientific observation of other species suggests there is a fundamental reason for the behavior, else it wouldn't be consistent and constant over time. Behavioral patterns are important in determining a great many things, and there is nothing supernatural about that. "

As has been pointed out to you, behavior patterns do not provide evidence of God. Period. They provide evidence of Man using the 'supernatural' to explain things he doesn't comprehend.

"If we take the phenomenon of worship in humans, and we examine it in a purely objective way, without our personal prejudices interfering, it becomes quite clear, mankind has a fundamental need to exhibit this behavior. Science must continue to ask, what is this fundamental need, and why? So far, your lame explanations just don't cut it. "

The fundamental need is that we WANT answers. We desire them. We crave them. When we cannot answer something, we tend to associate the 'divine' or 'supernatural' to the events we do not possess the knowledge to explain.

"It doesn't make sense that mankind has adopted this behavior merely to "explain the unexplained" because, first, spirituality doesn't explain the unexplained, the questions still remain in spite of spirituality. That being the case, mankind would have long ago realized that spirituality doesn't explain the unexplained, in fact, it sometimes makes the unexplained more confusing and difficult to understand. Secondly, you've not rectified why men have a need to explain the unexplained. Do other higher primates have a need to explain the unexplained, or do they not really give two shits? Yes, most higher primates do exhibit curiosity, but unlike man, they don't need to worship to satisfy it. If there were something 'natural' about mans behavior, if it were as simple as man trying to explain the unexplained, we would surely see some evidence of this behavior in other higher primates, to some degree. We don't! "

The above is the worst of your nonsense. The use of 'God/Gods' throughout history has been used to explain that which we do not understand. To pretend otherwise shows your ignorance of religion.



Furthermore, the billions and billions of people who are spiritual, never argue they have faith to explain the unexplained. I've never heard a religious person say that, have you? Now, I do hear tell of amazing strength, courage, inspiration and conviction, which are often attributed to the spiritual belief. So it scientifically appears the behavior is more than simply mans way of explaining the unexplained. (which coincidentally, also hasn't been explained.)
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Ok, I lied, the last paragraph is the worst of your nonsense. If you have never heard stories of how person 'x' angered the 'gods' and was punished by a storm or other similar stories over mankind's existence, then you are truly a fool.

As for the stories of amazing strength, courage etc... that is my point dear dixie... people spout off situations like that and say it is do to spiritual beliefs. Just as you did. They try to explain things they do not understand with that which they cannot prove one way or the other. Much like Gods existence.
 
Onceler said:
Your interpretation of "explain the unexplained" is simplistic.

Take death for example. No one really knows what happens, no one ever has. Believing in God doesn't "explain" what happens - it just hands off the fear of what happens, so we don't have to worry about it as much. Instead of angst-ridden uncertainty, we just say "it's in God's hands," and we can get on with our lives.

Sun worship is more of an example of what you are talking about; people not really knowing what the sun is, so they basically turn it into a deity.

The idea of a God is comforting to an otherwise existentialist state of being; it can add meaning to an otherwise mundane life. That's why religion was huge in the middle ages; most lives were basically devoid of hope, and the thought of a beautiful afterlife kept people going (and kept the church coffers full).
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You're missing a huge chunk of the point. You are not answering WHY man would have angst, uncertainty, worry, about what? Death? You are attempting to apply reverse logic here, it's like saying the reason so many people are arrested is because we have a lot of policemen! The reason we buy cars is so auto mechanics will have something to work on!
 
Dixie said:
You're missing a huge chunk of the point. You are not answering WHY man would have angst, uncertainty, worry, about what? Death? You are attempting to apply reverse logic here, it's like saying the reason so many people are arrested is because we have a lot of policemen! The reason we buy cars is so auto mechanics will have something to work on!
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Why are people afraid of death?

Are you really asking that?
 
Superfreak said:
Ok, I lied, the last paragraph is the worst of your nonsense. If you have never heard stories of how person 'x' angered the 'gods' and was punished by a storm or other similar stories over mankind's existence, then you are truly a fool.

As for the stories of amazing strength, courage etc... that is my point dear dixie... people spout off situations like that and say it is do to spiritual beliefs. Just as you did. They try to explain things they do not understand with that which they cannot prove one way or the other. Much like Gods existence.
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But why would man need to do that? Other upper primates don't have that need, so where did it come from? Come on Mr. Wizard, answer the damn question!

And people don't just "spout off" situations and say it is due to spirituality, they passionately believe this to be the case. There is absolutely no doubt in their minds, that whatever it is, wouldn't have been possible without the grace of God. Why would countless people consistently and passionately testify to this, if they were "just saying" it and didn't really believe it? Seems like, even in the most forgiving case study, there would be at least a small percentage of 'believers' who would say, meh, God didn't do a thing for me, I did it all on my own! But we don't see that at all, almost to the letter, they all credit God and believe he was responsible for what they were able to do.

As I stated earlier, if nothing else, we can establish that God certainly "exists" in a psychological sense, to a great many believers in faith. This is obvious and apparent, regardless of what your personal beliefs are.
 
Onceler said:
Why are people afraid of death?

Are you really asking that?
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Yeah, kinda... More importantly, or to put it another way, why are chimps not afraid of death? Here is our closest genetic ancestor, and he seems to have absolutely no problem with death, it doesn't cause fear, it doesn't cause the chimp to pray or believe in God, he just eats another banana, and life goes on. So where did man acquire this "fear of death" attribute?

Again, I think you PRESUME man adopted spirituality because he was afraid of death, but you don't know that man didn't adopt spirituality first, and then become afraid of death because of it.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
I think I did.....you can scientifically study "worship"......the "reasoning" behind worship has been extensively studied.......
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He didn't ask you that. He asked you to explain the scientific reasoning behind worship. He didn't ask you if you "can" study worship scientifically or if the reasons "for" worship have been studied scientifically. Please answer his question.
 
Dixie said:
"But why would man need to do that? Other upper primates don't have that need, so where did it come from? Come on Mr. Wizard, answer the damn question! "

Again you twit... it is because we have a need to find the answers. It is out cognitive ability that compels us to do so. you don't see any other primates building cities either.... does that provide evidence of God to?

"And people don't just "spout off" situations and say it is due to spirituality, they passionately believe this to be the case. There is absolutely no doubt in their minds, that whatever it is, wouldn't have been possible without the grace of God. Why would countless people consistently and passionately testify to this, if they were "just saying" it and didn't really believe it? Seems like, even in the most forgiving case study, there would be at least a small percentage of 'believers' who would say, meh, God didn't do a thing for me, I did it all on my own! But we don't see that at all, almost to the letter, they all credit God and believe he was responsible for what they were able to do. "

Again, this goes to show your ignorance on this topic. I never stated that people didn't BELIEVE in it. I stated that their BELIEFS in no way provide evidence of GOD. People have BELIEVED in many things over time. They BELIEVE in them, until they are shown to be wrong. That doesn't mean their BELIEFS were somehow fake or disingenuous. It simply means they let tried to apply an answer to something they did not understand. They THOUGHT they were correct, but they turned out to be incorrect.

As I stated earlier, if nothing else, we can establish that God certainly "exists" in a psychological sense, to a great many believers in faith. This is obvious and apparent, regardless of what your personal beliefs are.
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LMAO... now you go to psychological 'existence'???? wow. tell us oh great spinmeister... how does a BELIEF provide evidence of God?

all it provides is evidence that people BELIEVE in God. Period.
 
The use of 'God/Gods' throughout history has been used to explain that which we do not understand. To pretend otherwise shows your ignorance of religion.
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While "religion" is a man-made byproduct of spirituality, it is NOT spirituality in general. I am not ignorant of religion, I believe religion is simply mans way of trying to comprehend the incomprehensible. Because we are fallible and inferior, our "religious" beliefs often become intertwined with our own human emotions. We tend to want to believe that God desires us to worship him, when logic dictates, an omnipotent deity would have no reason to "desire" anything.

Things that are tough or impossible to explain, can often be understood and accepted through a faith-based belief that God intended it to be that way, sure, I will agree with that, but it doesn't mean that is why spirituality exists, nor does it demonstrate which came first. Perhaps it all relates to each other? Perhaps we have a need to explain, accept and understand, BECAUSE of spirituality? Perhaps God gifted us with that need and made us different from any other species in that regard? And perhaps that in itself, is the catalyst for what makes us the most advanced species?

Nothing can be concluded, that isn't going to happen. You are never going to disprove God, and I am never going to prove him. I am not going to change your mind, and you won't change mine. This was a thread discussion about evidence, and evidence is a subjective word. Clearly, you don't see what I presented as evidence, and I do. You've made your points, and I have responded with why those points do not stand the test of scrutiny. In the end, God will always be a matter of personal faith, and science simply can't provide answers, but this doesn't mean it doesn't provide evidence. Mine is substantial, because you haven't explained it away with trivial nonsense.
 
Superfreak said:
LMAO... now you go to psychological 'existence'???? wow. tell us oh great spinmeister... how does a BELIEF provide evidence of God?

all it provides is evidence that people BELIEVE in God. Period.
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It seems to be a common theme with the rebuttal, that man invented spiritual belief to 'explain the unexplained' or to help him cope with it. This has not been established by any evidence, it is something you are assuming to be the case. I am saying this is an illogical assumption on your part, and you should try and remain open-minded about the possibilities, and really objectively examine the evidence. It's entirely up to you to open your mind, I can't do it for you.

What you are telling me is, man had to invent an invisible entity to explain the unexplained, to cope with life in general and all the great unknowns. Not only did they invent and invisible entity, they loyally observed routine rituals honoring the invisible entity, to the point of sacrificing their babies and shit. And even though this invisible entity was made up superstitious nonsense, they continued these rituals of honor to the invisible imaginary entity for all of their existence to this very day, and will continue to do so, in spite of wars, persecutions, and death to those who claim to believe in the invisible entity, and swear by his power and grace.

Wow... So where in the fuck does this burning desire to understand the unexplained and cope with life come from? I mean, it's a very powerful thing to prompt such an elaborate and well-established device to deal with, where did this come from? Other animals don't seem to have the need, want, desire, or concern with the unexplained or unknown, why would mankind need to establish spirituality to cope with something that doesn't appear to be a problem for any other living creature? Does that make sense???
 
Dixie said:
It seems to be a common theme with the rebuttal, that man invented spiritual belief to 'explain the unexplained' or to help him cope with it. This has not been established by any evidence, it is something you are assuming to be the case. I am saying this is an illogical assumption on your part, and you should try and remain open-minded about the possibilities, and really objectively examine the evidence. It's entirely up to you to open your mind, I can't do it for you.

What you are telling me is, man had to invent an invisible entity to explain the unexplained, to cope with life in general and all the great unknowns. Not only did they invent and invisible entity, they loyally observed routine rituals honoring the invisible entity, to the point of sacrificing their babies and shit. And even though this invisible entity was made up superstitious nonsense, they continued these rituals of honor to the invisible imaginary entity for all of their existence to this very day, and will continue to do so, in spite of wars, persecutions, and death to those who claim to believe in the invisible entity, and swear by his power and grace.

Wow... So where in the fuck does this burning desire to understand the unexplained and cope with life come from? I mean, it's a very powerful thing to prompt such an elaborate and well-established device to deal with, where did this come from? Other animals don't seem to have the need, want, desire, or concern with the unexplained or unknown, why would mankind need to establish spirituality to cope with something that doesn't appear to be a problem for any other living creature? Does that make sense???
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Curiousity is a side effect of intelligence. It doesn't prove god, you dumb douche.
 
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