Scientific Evidence of God

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Dixie - In Memoriam

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Atheists often suggest there is no scientific evidence of God, and that theory can't even be entertained because it lacks the testable observations required for a hypothesis. I think this is a total load of crap, espoused by fools who simply don't want to admit they might be wrong.

The specific branch of science we can look to, is the study of animal behavior. After careful observation and study of a variety of creatures, one thing we consistently see is, animals behave in a certain way for a reason. There is no such thing (as far as we can tell) as a behavior without purpose or reason, in any species we've observed. If the animal is behaving normally, and functioning within the parameters of normalcy, any behavior exhibited is of purpose and reason. Sometimes, it may take us years to discover what the reason for a specific behavior is, but eventually it is found there is a purpose and reason for it.

Darwin's own collection of theories on evolution, also attest to this principle. Darwin theorizes that behaviors not conducive with survival, are discarded by the species. Retained are behaviors which promote survival of the species. This is defined by Darwin as "natural selection" and is a huge part of his theory of evolution. So the scientific evidence is clear, species behave a certain way for a reason, every behavioral characteristic is with purpose, otherwise, it would have long been discarded by the species.

If we study a history of human spirituality, the belief in something greater than man, we find that it parallels with the very history of civilized man. From the earliest human civilizations, we find evidence of human worship, and this behavior continues throughout the history of man. Certain periods of history are full of violent upheavals and persecution, mostly over religious beliefs. Through all the religiously-based wars, through all the assorted attempts to strip man's faith in what he worships, mankind continues to worship, it is a behavior that can't be suppressed. If Darwin is correct, this behavior in man most certainly serves a vital purpose and role in the survival of the species.

I believe this is the clearest scientific evidence we have, there is a God. If there were not a God, mankind would have no real compelling reason to continue a belief in God. However, mankind will risk his own death to maintain his spiritual beliefs. There is such a fundamental connection between man and spiritual beliefs, that nothing has ever been able to erase this behavior in the species, in spite of monumental efforts to do so.
 
if people don't want to believe in god...using science is not going to convince them....much easier to believe we came from apes
 
Yurt said:
if people don't want to believe in god...using science is not going to convince them....much easier to believe we came from apes
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Nobody except people who don't understand the Theory of Evolution think that anyone believes that.
 
Yes, Dixie. Evolution is completely and totally disproved by modern biology. In fact, modern biology explicitly makes it apparent than evolution is impossible, and it's only paid any attention any more because of liberal partisans holding guns to the heads of true patriots.

And also, evolution proves that god exists.


These beliefs I have just stated are completely and totally compatible, and anyone who disagrees should be shot. I have liberal friends.
 
Onceler said:
How many times are you going to post this?

It's called 'fear of the unknown.'

There. Solved.
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Nope, not solved at all. Why would men fear what is not known? This seems rather futile, and in any event, how would human spirituality ease these fears of the unknown? Does human spirituality cause the unknown to be known? I am not aware if it does.

In observing the behaviors of other animals, we find no similar rituals associated with their 'fear of the unknown' and most animals possess quite the contrary to 'fear of the unknown', they possess a curiosity to understand the unknown. In fact, this is precisely what separates humans from apes, our ability to reason and curiosity to explore the unknown. Why would any rational thinking individual believe, human spirituality exists for the sole purpose of easing fear of the unknown? It makes no sense to me.

No observable similar behaviors in any other species, no inherent reason to conclude spirituality is caused by fear of the unknown. Not even evident that mankind fears the unknown!
 
"Why would men fear what is not known? "

LOL

Look at the history of man.

Whenever man couldn't explain something, he inserted God into the equation, and he slept better.

Please.
 
Dixie said:
Atheists often suggest there is no scientific evidence of God, and that theory can't even be entertained because it lacks the testable observations required for a hypothesis. I think this is a total load of crap, espoused by fools who simply don't want to admit they might be wrong.

The specific branch of science we can look to, is the study of animal behavior. After careful observation and study of a variety of creatures, one thing we consistently see is, animals behave in a certain way for a reason. There is no such thing (as far as we can tell) as a behavior without purpose or reason, in any species we've observed. If the animal is behaving normally, and functioning within the parameters of normalcy, any behavior exhibited is of purpose and reason. Sometimes, it may take us years to discover what the reason for a specific behavior is, but eventually it is found there is a purpose and reason for it.

Darwin's own collection of theories on evolution, also attest to this principle. Darwin theorizes that behaviors not conducive with survival, are discarded by the species. Retained are behaviors which promote survival of the species. This is defined by Darwin as "natural selection" and is a huge part of his theory of evolution. So the scientific evidence is clear, species behave a certain way for a reason, every behavioral characteristic is with purpose, otherwise, it would have long been discarded by the species.

If we study a history of human spirituality, the belief in something greater than man, we find that it parallels with the very history of civilized man. From the earliest human civilizations, we find evidence of human worship, and this behavior continues throughout the history of man. Certain periods of history are full of violent upheavals and persecution, mostly over religious beliefs. Through all the religiously-based wars, through all the assorted attempts to strip man's faith in what he worships, mankind continues to worship, it is a behavior that can't be suppressed. If Darwin is correct, this behavior in man most certainly serves a vital purpose and role in the survival of the species.

I believe this is the clearest scientific evidence we have, there is a God. If there were not a God, mankind would have no real compelling reason to continue a belief in God. However, mankind will risk his own death to maintain his spiritual beliefs. There is such a fundamental connection between man and spiritual beliefs, that nothing has ever been able to erase this behavior in the species, in spite of monumental efforts to do so.
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The Russell's Teapot argument resurfaces yet again.
 
Onceler said:
"Why would men fear what is not known? "

LOL

Look at the history of man.

Whenever man couldn't explain something, he inserted God into the equation, and he slept better.

Please.
Click to expand...

Right, look at the history of man!! Why did man sleep better? Why do you claim man was afraid of the unknown, when it was courage to face the unknown which enabled mankind to advance above the apes and other primates? Seems man had to overcome his fears of the unknown at some point, or he would have never harnessed fire.

Inserting God into the equation, doesn't explain the unknown. If anything, it makes the unknown more difficult to understand. Why would God let this happen? Why would God cause floods and pestilence on his followers? Belief in God wouldn't require faith if mankind could explain the unknown through belief in God. It would be something every man would desire, because what would be better than knowing the unknown?

So your point, as lame and shallow as it was, is discounted as nonsense. There is no rational basis to think mankind requires spirituality to cope with fears of the unknown, nor is there any evidence spirituality reveals the unknown. You can have spirituality and still fear the unknown, and you can obviously not have spirituality and not fear the unknown, so there is no intrinsic connection between the two.

Returning to the science lab... If there is not a fundamental reason to retain the behavioral characteristic, it is discarded. You haven't given a fundamental reason, so the behavior would have been discarded long ago, if what you are saying is true. Observing the phenomenon of superstition, we see that symbolic rituals were once popular, but over time, intellectual people realized these superstitions were unfounded, and the rituals faded away. If religious spirituality were something akin to superstition, it would have also faded away, because the species only retains behavioral attributes required for survival of the species.

Instead, we see a robust connection between man and human spirituality. 95% of all people on the planet believe in something greater than self. If there were any behavior in any species, which exhibited itself 95% of the time, we would conclude scientifically, that it must be a requirement of the species for something fundamental to its survival.
 
Dixie said:
Right, look at the history of man!! Why did man sleep better? Why do you claim man was afraid of the unknown, when it was courage to face the unknown which enabled mankind to advance above the apes and other primates? Seems man had to overcome his fears of the unknown at some point, or he would have never harnessed fire.

Inserting God into the equation, doesn't explain the unknown. If anything, it makes the unknown more difficult to understand. Why would God let this happen? Why would God cause floods and pestilence on his followers? Belief in God wouldn't require faith if mankind could explain the unknown through belief in God. It would be something every man would desire, because what would be better than knowing the unknown?

So your point, as lame and shallow as it was, is discounted as nonsense. There is no rational basis to think mankind requires spirituality to cope with fears of the unknown, nor is there any evidence spirituality reveals the unknown. You can have spirituality and still fear the unknown, and you can obviously not have spirituality and not fear the unknown, so there is no intrinsic connection between the two.

Returning to the science lab... If there is not a fundamental reason to retain the behavioral characteristic, it is discarded. You haven't given a fundamental reason, so the behavior would have been discarded long ago, if what you are saying is true. Observing the phenomenon of superstition, we see that symbolic rituals were once popular, but over time, intellectual people realized these superstitions were unfounded, and the rituals faded away. If religious spirituality were something akin to superstition, it would have also faded away, because the species only retains behavioral attributes required for survival of the species.

Instead, we see a robust connection between man and human spirituality. 95% of all people on the planet believe in something greater than self. If there were any behavior in any species, which exhibited itself 95% of the time, we would conclude scientifically, that it must be a requirement of the species for something fundamental to its survival.
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and there in lies the rub

a better question is:

if god is real...why does he hide behind faith...
 
Dixie said:
Only those without faith think he is hiding. ;)
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so..........those with only faith.........think he is not...

it is a faith based argument dixie....they will not believe based upon YOUR science, just as YOU will not believe based upon their science....

abraham was not called father of the faithful for no reason....faith is just that.....faith

faith is not science, at least manmade science
 
Yurt said:
so..........those with only faith.........think he is not...

it is a faith based argument dixie....they will not believe based upon YOUR science, just as YOU will not believe based upon their science....

abraham was not called father of the faithful for no reason....faith is just that.....faith

faith is not science, at least manmade science
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You are right, faith isn't science. This is exactly why I presented scientific evidence of God, it is more powerful than faith to some. I don't believe I have absconded my own branch of science, can you explain that assertion? What do you mean by "YOUR science?" My science is the same as everyone else, it is universal. Science doesn't conclude, man concludes. Science only provides evidence, and that is what I presented, the evidence.

Animal behavior is science, and what I presented is observed phenomenon documented in science, pier reviewed, published in science journals, and meeting every criteria we require for something to be scientific. The only attempted explanation for why humans exhibit spirituality is they fear the unknown, but that is a speculation, and one that doesn't hold to scrutiny.

Taking the approach we take in science on virtually everything else, we must conclude that human spirituality is a fundamentally important behavior for the species. Being true to science, we must continue to ask, why is it fundamentally important to the species? There is the distinct possibility that human spirituality is important because there is something to it. Ochm's Razor says, when you have a reasonable explanation for something, that is most likely the reason. Just putting two and two together, science doesn't PROVE there is a God, it just gives us the evidence, MEN conclude.
 
I could argue that a salmon swims upstream because he likes the fresher water. You could point to science and say, but Dixie, we know they do this to spawn! And I could continue to say that isn't the case, they just happen to spawn because they are happy to be in fresh water! But when you really begin to look at the scientific evidence objectively, and with an unbiased mind, you realize the salmon don't swim upstream because the water is fresher, it doesn't matter about the water, they do it to spawn.

I give this analogy to compare what is happening in this debate. Scientific evidence is clear, mankind has a foundational connection to spirituality, and always has. In fact, it is one distinct feature we have over other species of primates. Humans are the most advanced, creative, intelligent and imaginative creatures on the planet, and the only ones to worship. That is no coincidence.

There is an inherent connection between mankind and human spirituality, regardless of the petty arguments over religion. This is not an endorsement of religious beliefs, those are a byproduct of human spirituality, trying to understand something beyond human comprehension. Since the dawn of human civilization, mankind has had a need and desire to worship something greater than self. This attribute is strong, it can't be beaten out of man, it can't be stomped out of man, through thousands of years of persecution, war, genocide, death... human spirituality still remains, and as dominant in humans as ever.

A noted psychiatrist once stated, "if God didn't exist, man would have to invent him." Which is precisely what Atheists claim man did, but that was not the shrink's point. It was to say, mankind has a hard-wired instinctual desire to worship something, and has difficulty functioning long-term without it.

Now, this fundamental human spirituality doesn't mean God exists. That is a matter of faith, and to a great number of people who pray to something every day, he certainly does exist in their minds. But what does "exist" mean? Does God physically exist? I am not aware that anyone has claimed he does. In science, to "exist" means in a physical state. The next issue would be, how to measure existence of a God? Perhaps there is a physical existence of God and we don't know how to extrapolate the information? The bottom line is, you do not have to prove existence of God to determine human spirituality plays a vitally fundamental role in the advancement of our species.
 
Dixie's trying to outdo his previously documented retardedness, but he's failing because he set the bar way too high for himself.

Dixie. Nobody here takes you seriously. And nobody should. You prove it to us every time you try to say you have some sort of scientific explanation for something supernatural.
 
ib1yysguy said:
Dixie's trying to outdo his previously documented retardedness, but he's failing because he set the bar way too high for himself.

Dixie. Nobody here takes you seriously. And nobody should. You prove it to us every time you try to say you have some sort of scientific explanation for something supernatural.
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One should take all symptoms seriously.
 
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