Science Is in the Details

ib1yysguy said:
Now you're in the realm of a deistic God who set things into motion and then took his hands off and let things happen. If that's your contention, then whatever. But that's a long, long way away from the Christian God who knows your thoughts and interferes on your behalf to make you better when you get sick, cares who you sleep with, etc.

What conclusion can you draw about the fact that there's no measurable evidence of God's interaction with the physical universe after it's creation, if I were to grant you it was created by God?
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Also, the works of a deistic god can be explained just as well by there being no god. There's really no reason to assume a deistic god anymore than anything else.
 
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ib1yysguy said:
You're not even presenting arguments anymore.
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the ones already presented are still standing....


If the people pleading for God to intervene get the same result as random chance, what does that tell you about God's intervention?
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I didn't say that they get the same result as random chance, that's your claim not mine....you know as well as I do that such a thing would be impossible to actually measure....what is the "random chance" that someone is going to be healed of a mortal illness?....you got some control group?....okay, you folks over here, we're not going to do anything for you....we're just going to let you die because we need a control group on the random chance of dying from a mortal illness.....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
the ones already presented are still standing....
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Unbelievable.


PostmodernProphet said:
I didn't say that they get the same result as random chance, that's your claim not mine....you know as well as I do that such a thing would be impossible to actually measure....what is the "random chance" that someone is going to be healed of a mortal illness?....you got some control group?....okay, you folks over here, we're not going to do anything for you....we're just going to let you die because we need a control group on the random chance of dying from a mortal illness.....
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Seriously, you haven't even read the study and you're already attacking the methodology. That's retarded.

Do a google. Look them up. They've been done over and over and over. Everyone gets the same result. One time someone got a result that led people to think they had gotten some sort of prayer effect, but it turned out they were frauds. Whoops!

Yeah, it can be measured. Random chance would mean both the control group and the other group would have the same mortality rate for the same diseases receiving the same medical treatments, the only difference being prayer between the two. If the control group is large enough, they effectively mitigate any outliers statistically and eliminate confounding variables.

The studies have shown that prayer does squat.

This was one example of how we CAN measure whether or not God is interfering in the physical universe. It would be super easy to demonstrate God's existence if he did something because it would upset what you would expect to get if he wasn't there at all.
 
ib1yysguy said:
This is seriously the most retarded thing I've ever heard you ask.

If anyone had any doubt that you were scientifically illiterate, this is proof positive. And no, the speed of the solar winds doesn't defy the laws of physics.
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Really???

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_winds[/ame]

The solar wind is a stream of charged particles—a plasma—ejected from the upper atmosphere of the sun. It consists mostly of electrons and protons with energies of about 1 keV. The stream of particles varies in temperature and speed with the passage of time. These particles are able to escape the sun's gravity, in part because of the high temperature of the corona, but also because of high kinetic energy that particles gain through a process that is not well-understood.

In January 1959, the first ever direct observations and measurements of strength of the solar wind were made by the Soviet satellite Luna 1.[9] They were detected by hemispherical ion traps. The discovery, made by Konstantin Gringauz was verified by Luna 2, Luna 3 and by the more distant measurements of Venera 1. Three years later its measurement was performed by Americans (Neugebauer and collaborators) using the Mariner 2 spacecraft.[10]

However, the acceleration of the fast wind is still not understood and cannot be fully explained by Parker's theory. The first numerical simulation of the solar wind in the solar corona including closed and open field lines was performed by Pneuman and Knopp in 1971. The magnetohydrodynamics equations in steady state were solved iteratively starting with an initial dipolar configuration.[11]

In the late 1990s the Ultraviolet Coronal Spectrometer (UVCS) instrument on board the SOHO spacecraft observed the acceleration region of the fast solar wind emanating from the poles of the sun, and found that the wind accelerates much faster than can be accounted for by thermodynamic expansion alone. Parker's model predicted that the wind should make the transition to supersonic flow at an altitude of about 4 solar radii from the photosphere; but the transition (or "sonic point") now appears to be much lower, perhaps only 1 solar radius above the photosphere, suggesting that some additional mechanism accelerates the solar wind away from the sun.

So how about a heaping steaming helping of STFU! Moron!
 
ib1yysguy said:
One time someone got a result that led people to think they had gotten some sort of prayer effect
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This is the only study that's ever gotten wide publicity, BTW, and it's still quoted by ministers today. They usually say that 'study after study' confirms it. Christians like to lie.
 
Watermark said:
I was just trying to get a laugh. Dawkins is extremely antagonistic about his atheist views, more than even I'm comfortable with. I don't think it ultimately has a good reflection on atheists to be so militant about atheism. But I still enjoy watching him. :D
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The few atheist I know aren't militant atheist, there apathetic. They just really don't care about religion or the question of God and his/her/its existence.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
The few atheist I know aren't militant atheist, there apathetic. They just really don't care about religion or the question of God and his/her/its existence.
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Well I do care one way or the other. I have absolutely no respect at all for the religious and their views. I just don't talk about it with them (besides on the internet) because it's rude and looks obnoxious.
 
Watermark said:
Well I do care one way or the other. I have absolutely no respect at all for the religious and their views. I just don't talk about it with them (besides on the internet) because it's rude and looks obnoxious.
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Does that include your own religion of Science? Because you have demonstrated in this very thread, you DO practice a religious belief, it's just not what is typically known as religion. You see, Waterhead, you aren't much different than the person of religious faith who says he has no respect for people who study science. You're just as much of a closed-minded wacko, you just practice a different religion. I happen to be very open-minded, and I respect the viewpoints of both religion and science, like Dr. Collins. You should try joining us in the 21st Century and stop being one of those "knuckledraggers" who refutes what he doesn't understand.
 
Watermark said:
No it's not.
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sure it is....from ibi's link above...

But experts said the study could not overcome perhaps the largest obstacle to prayer study: the unknown amount of prayer each person received from friends, families, and congregations around the world who pray daily for the sick and dying.
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there's no way to actually create a valid control group....
 
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