School Prayer...

Dixie said:
No, the 1st Amendment is abundantly clear, prohibiting the free exercise of religion is a violation of it. Until you can present some evidence to the contrary, you can suck my ass, because you're just plain WRONG as usual, Jarhead!
Click to expand...

1st ammd doesn't apply inside of school you pointy hat wearing cousin marry'r.
 
Jarod said:
Not allowing a school employee to break out into prayer at any time they choose is not the same thing as prohibiting the free exercise of religion. The constitution also prohibits limits on free speach, but the school employee will get fired for repitedly screaming "fuck you" at students in the halls.
Click to expand...


Is mis-stating and mis-characterizing what someone says the only way you guys can debate a point ?
 
Dixie said:
First of all, let me say, there is this huge gaping difference between a teacher leading school prayer in the classroom, as part of a MANDATORY daily agenda, and a school employee leading a VOLUNTARY prayer. Until you can be honest enough to recognize this huge difference, we can't have anything resembling a civil discussion on the issue. You are determined to draw an example that doesn't exist in the argument and a position I haven't taken, because you have to draw an absurd abstract to support your viewpoint. You know, beyond any doubt, that what I have said is absolute truth, and is reasonable, and you can't find any argument with the truth, so you have to make it into something you can attack and be right on. I'm done playing this game, have fun with it!
Click to expand...

Non-responsive. My examples concerned "voluntary" prayer.
 
Dixie said:
Wait a damn minute moron! Stop changing what was said! Where did I say a school employee could "break out into prayer at any time?" Why do you have to CHANGE my argument to one I didn't make? Does it just not dawn on you that you keep doing this?
Click to expand...

What guidelines would you place on teacher prayer? Why are those restrictions anymore Constitutionally justified than those currently in place?
 
RStringfield said:
What guidelines would you place on teacher prayer? Why are those restrictions anymore Constitutionally justified than those currently in place?
Click to expand...

We need to be clear on what IS and ISN'T being debated here. The Supreme Court has ruled on mandatory school prayer.

Abington Township School District v. Schempp (consolidated with Murray v. Curlett), 374 U.S. 203 (1963), United States Supreme Court case argued on February 27–28, 1963 and decided on June 17, 1963. In the case, the Court decided 8-1 in favor of the respondent, Edward Schempp, and declared school-sponsored Bible reading in public schools in the United States to be unconstitutional.​

This was decided 46 years ago! Nearly a half of a century! Yet, you morons continue to want to claim this is being debated currently! No one to my knowledge, since 1963, has tried to argue that school prayer should be mandatory, or that it should be something done as a regular part of the school day. No one has argued that the schools should be able to write prayers, or that this should be left to the teacher's discretion. Those are red herrings you are tossing into the debate, because you can't argue the point being legitimately made.

IF an agent of the school voluntarily wants to lead a non-denominational prayer to students who voluntarily wish to pray, and it is not being done as part of the school's curricular activities (extracurricular), then it SHOULD be acceptable and fully constitutional to do so! You've not presented a case for why you can deny these people, under this specific scenario, the right guaranteed in the Constitution to religious exercise.
 
Dixie said:
We need to be clear on what IS and ISN'T being debated here. The Supreme Court has ruled on mandatory school prayer.

Abington Township School District v. Schempp (consolidated with Murray v. Curlett), 374 U.S. 203 (1963), United States Supreme Court case argued on February 27–28, 1963 and decided on June 17, 1963. In the case, the Court decided 8-1 in favor of the respondent, Edward Schempp, and declared school-sponsored Bible reading in public schools in the United States to be unconstitutional.​

This was decided 46 years ago! Nearly a half of a century! Yet, you morons continue to want to claim this is being debated currently! No one to my knowledge, since 1963, has tried to argue that school prayer should be mandatory, or that it should be something done as a regular part of the school day.
Click to expand...


How many times must I repeat that I AM DISCUSSING V-O-L-U-N-T-A-R-Y PRAYER?


No one has argued that the schools should be able to write prayers, or that this should be left to the teacher's discretion.
Click to expand...

It has to be one the other or a combination of the two.

Those are red herrings you are tossing into the debate, because you can't argue the point being legitimately made.
Click to expand...

I am asking you to clarify your position. You whine that others are mischaracterizing your position by claiming that you would remove any limit on a teacher to engage in voluntary prayer. Well then, what are the limits you propose?

IF an agent of the school voluntarily wants to lead a non-denominational prayer to students who voluntarily wish to pray, and it is not being done as part of the school's curricular activities (extracurricular), then it SHOULD be acceptable and fully constitutional to do so!
Click to expand...

Okay those are some limits. Been over the voluntary and the curricular/extracurricular is boring.

But non-denominational, there's a gold mine. Why should a teacher be limited to some certain form of prayer? How does that not violate their right to practice religion as they choose? What exactly constitutes a non denominational prayer?

You've not presented a case for why you can deny these people, under this specific scenario, the right guaranteed in the Constitution to religious exercise.
Click to expand...

You've not presented a case for why you can deny these people, under this specific scenario, the right guaranteed in the Constitution to religious exercise. What justifies limiting the teachers free exercise of religion to non-denominational prayer?

I have presented my case as to why teacher lead prayer should not be permitted and is not a right.
 
bravo said:
Is mis-stating and mis-characterizing what someone says the only way you guys can debate a point ?
Click to expand...

I did noy mistate anything, I am merely pointing out that Constitutional rights are situational. You dont have a right to speak anytime anywhere, and you dont have a right to break out into prayer anytime anywhere.
 
Dixie said:
We need to be clear on what IS and ISN'T being debated here. The Supreme Court has ruled on mandatory school prayer.

Abington Township School District v. Schempp (consolidated with Murray v. Curlett), 374 U.S. 203 (1963), United States Supreme Court case argued on February 27–28, 1963 and decided on June 17, 1963. In the case, the Court decided 8-1 in favor of the respondent, Edward Schempp, and declared school-sponsored Bible reading in public schools in the United States to be unconstitutional.​

This was decided 46 years ago! Nearly a half of a century! Yet, you morons continue to want to claim this is being debated currently! No one to my knowledge, since 1963, has tried to argue that school prayer should be mandatory, or that it should be something done as a regular part of the school day. No one has argued that the schools should be able to write prayers, or that this should be left to the teacher's discretion. Those are red herrings you are tossing into the debate, because you can't argue the point being legitimately made.

IF an agent of the school voluntarily wants to lead a non-denominational prayer to students who voluntarily wish to pray, and it is not being done as part of the school's curricular activities (extracurricular), then it SHOULD be acceptable and fully constitutional to do so! You've not presented a case for why you can deny these people, under this specific scenario, the right guaranteed in the Constitution to religious exercise.
Click to expand...

A school (government) employee enjoys a position of power and respect lent to that employee by the school (government) over those students. Leading a "volentary" prayer is encouraging that prayer in many situations.

Dixie, would you really be okay with everyone being led by a teacher to volentairly face Mecca and shout "Allah Ackbar" "Allah Ackbar" at the start of a Football game...
 
Jarod said:
A school (government) employee enjoys a position of power and respect lent to that employee by the school (government) over those students. Leading a "volentary" prayer is encouraging that prayer in many situations.

Dixie, would you really be okay with everyone being led by a teacher to volentairly face Mecca and shout "Allah Ackbar" "Allah Ackbar" at the start of a Football game...
Click to expand...

A school employee and the students are also citizens of the United States, and have certain rights and freedoms under the Constitution, which can not be denied by the Federal Government or ANY man, for that matter.
 
Dixie said:
A school employee and the students are also citizens of the United States, and have certain rights and freedoms under the Constitution, which can not be denied by the Federal Government or ANY man, for that matter.
Click to expand...

So a school employ is allowed to yell "Fuck" in the hallways? Or is he only allowed to yell it at the start of extracaricular activities?
 
Dixie said:
A school employee and the students are also citizens of the United States, and have certain rights and freedoms under the Constitution, which can not be denied by the Federal Government or ANY man, for that matter.
Click to expand...

A school employee has a right to pray whenever and wherever he wants, he does not have a right to keep his job.

Just like a Wal-Mart employee has a right to free speach... yet he cant make a speech while on the clock.
 
Jarod said:
So a school employ is allowed to yell "Fuck" in the hallways? Or is he only allowed to yell it at the start of extracaricular activities?
Click to expand...

Abso-fuckin-loutely AMAZING! You AGAIN have to frame an absurd argument that was never made, in order to detract from the fact you can't argue the point on the table! I point it out to you, and you STILL continue to do it!

Look Jarhead, why don't we just all agree that I am saying whatever the fuck ridiculous and absurd thing you CLAIM that I'm saying, and therefore, you are right and I am wrong, end of discussion? I mean, that just saves us all a little time here, doesn't it? Since that is obviously what you are hell bent on doing, regardless of how many times you are popped in the nose!
 
Dixie said:
Abso-fuckin-loutely AMAZING! You AGAIN have to frame an absurd argument that was never made, in order to detract from the fact you can't argue the point on the table! I point it out to you, and you STILL continue to do it!

Look Jarhead, why don't we just all agree that I am saying whatever the fuck ridiculous and absurd thing you CLAIM that I'm saying, and therefore, you are right and I am wrong, end of discussion? I mean, that just saves us all a little time here, doesn't it? Since that is obviously what you are hell bent on doing, regardless of how many times you are popped in the nose!
Click to expand...

Freedom of speach, I am saying school employees are Americans arnt they, they have a 1st Amendment right to free speach... The are guaranteed the right to yell "fuck" .....
 
Jarod said:
Freedom of speach, I am saying school employees are Americans arnt they, they have a 1st Amendment right to free speach... The are guaranteed the right to yell "fuck" .....
Click to expand...

No, because "fuck" is an obscenity, a sexual one at that! I haven't argued that school employees should be allowed to violate school policies or perform anything in the capacity of their job as an agent of the school. We are talking about voluntary initiation as well as participation in the free religious exercise we are endowed with. If this is done in extracurricular manner, it shouldn't be a problem, and isn't unconstitutional. You seem to think you can strip people of their Constitutional rights based on the fact they are in a Government building, and I think that is absurd!
 
Dixie said:
No, because "fuck" is an obscenity, a sexual one at that! I haven't argued that school employees should be allowed to violate school policies or perform anything in the capacity of their job as an agent of the school. We are talking about voluntary initiation as well as participation in the free religious exercise we are endowed with. If this is done in extracurricular manner, it shouldn't be a problem, and isn't unconstitutional. You seem to think you can strip people of their Constitutional rights based on the fact they are in a Government building, and I think that is absurd!
Click to expand...

You have the right to speak... so in any government building you can yell a sexual obsenity according to your logic.... Right!
 
Jarod said:
Does anyone belive we should have a "Christian" prayer mandated at the start of any school day?
Click to expand...

NO! I came up in schools in the 1950's we did not have prayer in public schools, just the pledge of allegiance in the morning.

todayshomework.jpg

Don't fix the world, just wait for heaven. Christianity, the pro-slavery religion
 
Thanks, Ken, you should call up the abolition movement tell them they are pro-slavery. Then call MLK and the SCLC and tell them the same thing.
 
Jarod said:
You have the right to speak... so in any government building you can yell a sexual obsenity according to your logic.... Right!
Click to expand...

Free speech doesn't give you the right to yell obscenities in public, sorry if you misinterpreted the Constitution AGAIN. My logic tends to work better when we remain in the confines of REALITY. Give it a try!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top