School Prayer...

WinterBorn said:
Why is it that so many people demand a public display of faith and prayer?

If a teacher leads 100 students in a prayer, will it be heard more clearly by God than if 101 people silently pray?

Someone help me out, but isn't there a biblical parable about the rich man praying loudly and making a fuss, while the poor man prayed quietly and earnestly?
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How else would someone display to everyone within earshot that they are the most religious person in the county?

What better way to display the "hotline to God" some possess than to pray loudly in public where everyone can see?!
 
Jarod said:
Does anyone belive we should have a "Christian" prayer mandated at the start of any school day?
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I don't even know why this is still an issue. Why can't the parents of these kids have them pray at home before they leave for school? Last time I checked, there's nothing in the Old or New Testament that says there must be prayer before school starts. And don't we have all those little laws and such that forbids loyalty oaths or state religions, etc.

I went through the Roman Catholic school system...so prayer was mandatory, as was the periodic church attendence. Since public school has kids from all faiths, you can't mandate just one type of class prayer. It's just a silly thing, kids are NOT going to burst into flame because they didn't publically pray in front of the non-initiated, gentiles, or whatever.

Oh, and one more thing: by the time I left Catholic High School, you had just as many kids secretly getting drunk, sneaking into bars with fake ID, having pre-marital sex, getting pregnant (and some having abortions), smoking joints, doing other illegal drugs as you did from the local public high school.....so much for the moral fiber builiding of prayer.
 
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WinterBorn said:
And you still didn't answer.
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I'm sorry, I will try to do my best...
When would the voluntary, school employee led prayer take place?
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Whenever the volunteer principals involved felt compelled. That is the beauty of it not being 'established and mandatory', it can be done at any time.

What would those kids who didn't want to pray be doing while this was going on?
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Not praying. Perhaps some Atheist could be teaching them the importance of respecting other people, since they believe we are inherently endowed with morals, ethics, and decency as humans? That's merely a suggestion.

And lets add one more. Who will decide the prayer that will be said?
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The voluntary principals involved in the leadership of such.
 
Atheist moral systems at least have a chance at actual morality. The irrationality and racism of religion ultimately transforms them into instruments of immorality and totalitarianism.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Atheist moral systems at least have a chance at actual morality. The irrationality and racism of religion ultimately transforms them into instruments of immorality and totalitarianism.
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You should join a "congregation"... They exist, I saw a story about them on the news recently. Many Atheists get mad at them for creating an actual religion (marriages and other ceremonies are performed by the leaders of the "congregations"...)

It was quite enlightening to see them...
 
NigelTufnel said:
Do you have your hierarchy of freedoms chart handy? I seem to have misplaced mine.
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Yeah, I like to see were it's spelled out in the Constitution or Bill of Rights that a generic Roman Catholic prayer is mandatory in the home room of all educational institutions before classes begin.
 
Taichiliberal said:
Yeah, I like to see were it's spelled out in the Constitution or Bill of Rights that a generic Roman Catholic prayer is mandatory in the home room of all educational institutions before classes begin.
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I gotta ask...who the hell posted ANYTHING resembling what you said in your post....even remotely ???.....huh ? NOBODY? Correct...so WTF are you talking about....?:cig:hittin' the crack?
 
Taichiliberal said:
Yeah, I like to see were it's spelled out in the Constitution or Bill of Rights that a generic Roman Catholic prayer is mandatory in the home room of all educational institutions before classes begin.
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Yeah, I would like to see that too! Maybe it would help me to understand what Liberal Atheists are so agitated about.
 
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For Jarod, my favorite illiterate lawyer
 
Why can't the parents of these kids have them pray at home before they leave for school?
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Dixie said:
Perhaps they already do? IS there something in the 1st Amendment about only having the right to religious exercise once per day?
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That's not the issue at hand....the issue at hand is an orchestrated prayer session mandated by either the teacher and/or condoned by the principal in a public school system for a particular class or entire student body. Here's an excellent site review that explains in detail the situation:


http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/livenow?id=7115498


Since 1962, the Supreme Court's rejection of school prayer has rested upon its interpretation of the First Amendment. That interpretation has hardly varied, even in the face of public outrage, political opposition, and scholarly criticism. The court's decisions have remained largely consistent across several cases for four decades.

As one of the constitution's most powerful and sweeping guarantees of freedom, the First Amendment is generally thought to contain two contrasting principles with respect to religion. These are announced in the opening words of the amendment, which contains two clauses: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." In constitutional law, the first clause is referred to as the Establishment Clause, and the second as the Free Exercise Clause.

In school prayer cases, the Supreme Court has repeatedly given the Establishment Clause precedence. From the earliest case, Engel v. Vitale, the Court has held that public school prayer is "wholly inconsistent" with the Establishment Clause. The majority opinion went out of its way to stress that the Court did not oppose religion itself. Instead, the opinion stated that "each separate government in this country should stay out of the business of writing or sanctioning official prayers and leave that purely religious function to the people themselves and to those the people choose to look to for religious guidance."
 
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Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Yeah, I like to see were it's spelled out in the Constitution or Bill of Rights that a generic Roman Catholic prayer is mandatory in the home room of all educational institutions before classes begin.
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bravo said:
I gotta ask...who the hell posted ANYTHING resembling what you said in your post....even remotely ???.....huh ? NOBODY? Correct...so WTF are you talking about....?:cig:hittin' the crack?
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Well genius, just for the hell of it, clik to the opening post of this thread and READ IT...then read the exchanges in chronological order....that'll clue you in. Then if you're so inclined to actually have an intelligent exchange on the issue, let me know.
 
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Ironic that Jarod starts this thread with bullshit and no one corrects him....and how the lefties conveniently forget about their own trying essentially do the very same thing numerous times...the amendment was to allow voluntary prayer, not school led or school mandated or school authored...
Just FYI:

Sen. Byrd introduces amendment allowing school prayer

By The Associated Press

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=16832

Editor's note: Rep. Nick Rahall, D-W. Va., introduced in the House on May 4 an amendment identical to Byrd's, the Associated Press reported.

CHARLESTON, W.Va. — U.S. Sen. Robert C. Byrd introduced a proposed constitutional amendment on April 27 to allow — but not require — prayer in public schools and extracurricular events.

Byrd said the First Amendment was never intended to bar voluntary expressions of religion. The relevant part of the amendment says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

"In my opinion, too many have not given equal weight to both of these clauses. Instead, they have focused only on the first clause, which prohibits the establishment of religion, at the expense of the second clause, which protects the right of Americans to worship as they please," Byrd said in a speech to the Senate.

"It seems to me that any prohibition of voluntary prayer in school violates the right of our school children to practice freely their religion. And that's just not right," Byrd said.

Byrd, D-W.Va., offered similar proposals in 1962, 1973, 1979, 1982, 1993, 1995 and 1997.
 
Taichiliberal said:
Well genius, just for the hell of it, clik to the opening post of this thread and READ IT...then read the exchanges in chronological order....that'll clue you in. Then if you're so inclined to actually have an intelligent exchange on the issue, let me know.
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No one claimed that it was spelled out in the Constitution or Bill of Rights that a generic Roman Catholic prayer is mandatory in the home room of all educational institutions before classes begin.

Unless I missed that post...you're the only one that came up with that nonsense....
\\\not in the opening post or any thereafter
 
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