Scalia’s controversial remarks about African Americans expose U.S. higher education

Norah said:
Did I wrong you in some way?
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He's a bit partisan, since he decided to go left he's been insane. Wait until he pretends that his college education that somehow still left him functionally illiterate somehow makes him better than others.
 
Leftist bullshit aside, this also stems from the "everyone needs college" mentality that has permeated society especially since the demise of heavy industry in the early 80s. I found that people can earn a pretty damned good living in the trades, a lot of times even better than some college educated dunce with a degree.
 
Celticguy said:
So you feel accepting kids into schools they are not qualified for to satisfy AA is helping them ?
Neverending that they flunk out and and as often as not don't enroll at schools they do qualify for.
Equal rights good, unequal rights bad.
It might make lefties feel all warm inside but it's no boon to the kids.
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AA is needed cause if it's left to your standard GOP white southern racist blacks would be lucky to get a 2nd grade education. AA is intended to both correct a wrong that racist bigots committed and, in part, as a solution to a social problem that white southern bigots are largely responsible for creating. Christie's post shows in no uncertain terms that the systemic issue of the bigotry of conservative white males in this nation is still endemic.

Until the day comes where we don't have bigots like Scalia in positions of power that can affect peoples fair and equal access to education than AA is unquestionably needed to right their wrongs.
 
NOVA said:
According to the most recent statistics, the nationwide college graduation rate for black students stands at an appallingly low rate of 42 percent. This figure is 20 percentage points below the 62 percent rate for white students.
Whats your guess as to why......
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Whites have a 81% college graduation rate and more than twice the economic opportunities to go to college yet you couldn't even manage to obtain a Mickey Mouse degree. Why don't you try getting an education before you criticize others for their lack of education. Dumb ass.
 
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cawacko said:
Many liberals have been applyotic over his comments. He was asking a question about an argument that has been made over whether (black) students benefit from gaining admittance to a school they didn't qualify for.
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Which is a false premise. Because there are candidates with arguably better qualifications doesn't mean that the people of color who are chosen are not qualified.

This Wacko is what my black friends call "Soft racism" and it seriously pisses them off. I mean the African American argument is hard to counter. If they represent 15% of the total population and they are paying 15% of the taxes to that State and that University is a tax payer funded University than they are well within their rights to see that school populated with 15% of the best and brightest African American kids in the State as opposed to paying 15% of the taxes and virtually none of your kids getting an opportunity to attend cause some conservative old bigots don't think they are qualified. As tax payers they have paid for admission to the party.
 
Norah said:
I kind of get what he is trying to say I think. Say if you werent doing all that great in high school and decided to apply to a school that you knew you werent qualified for based on the admissions standards and then you are accepted because of a need to fill a skin color quota then are you really being set up for success? I tried hard in school but I wasnt a straight A student and I didnt have a great SAT score. I didnt have the grades to get into a school like UT and so I applied at schools that I qualified for and that I liked. My school is much smaller and pretty much unknown outside of Texas but I enjoy it there and the classes are great and challenging and it is the best fit for me in my opinion. Also you dont have to go to a UT in order to get a great education either. A black student that may not have the grades for UT can still get a great education at so many other universities in Texas just like any white or hispanic student can.
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Sorry Nora. That rationalization is just soft racism. You're argument is based on the premise that these students of color either are not qualified or do not believe themselves to be qualified when there is no question that the admissions process is either fair or objective when it is not and has never been.

Scalia's convoluted thinking is just his rationalizing his own racist view point. The soft racism of accept less than what you believe you are capable of so that you can play catch up to us superior white folk and than maybe one day you can be like one of us. It's a load of horse apples. Learning to compete at the highest level is often of far more value than any grade one would receive.

These folks of color are tax payers in Texas and by golly if they are 15% of the population and they pay 15% of the taxes than by golly they are within in their rights to see the best and brightest in their communities represent 15% of the enrollment of that State funded school. Particularly given this States history of denying these folks access to a quality education.

The flaw in the agrument here is that the admission's process is completely objective and unbiased in terms of qualifications when to any objective observer they have never, ever been. So just because there may arguably be a better qualified candidate doesn't mean, out of hand, that the candidate of color isn't qualified.

That's just poor reasoning based on flawed logic using a false premise.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Sorry Nora. That rationalization is just soft racism. You're argument is based on the premise that these students of color either are not qualified or do not believe themselves to be qualified when there is no question that the admissions process is either fair or objective when it is not and has never been.

Scalia's convoluted thinking is just his rationalizing his own racist view point. The soft racism of accept less than what you believe you are capable of so that you can play catch up to us superior white folk and than maybe one day you can be like one of us. It's a load of horse apples. Learning to compete at the highest level is often of far more value than any grade one would receive.

These folks of color are tax payers in Texas and by golly if they are 15% of the population and they pay 15% of the taxes than by golly they are within in their rights to see the best and brightest in their communities represent 15% of the enrollment of that State funded school. Particularly given this States history of denying these folks access to a quality education.

The flaw in the agrument here is that the admission's process is completely objective and unbiased in terms of qualifications when to any objective observer they have never, ever been. So just because there may arguably be a better qualified candidate doesn't mean, out of hand, that the candidate of color isn't qualified.

That's just poor reasoning based on flawed logic using a false premise.
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Agreed, but for the little good that AA has done, there have been many very unqualified people in all endeavors who wound up in fields they clearly don't belong. The case of the black female firefighter who just could not cut it in the FDNY comes to mind here. Or even in my own area, there was a reverse discrimination lawsuit over white lieutenant candidates that were passed over blacks, even though the white candidates scored higher.
 
The main reason I oppose Liberal "solutions" to the problems of racism is that they still undermine abilities and potential of all people, regardless of their skin color or ethnicity. Liberals think that certain "protected classes" need a handout from the government to succeed. And that is just as wrong as outright racism.
 
christiefan915 said:
The Common Application doesn't require prospective students to identify by race or ethnicity.

I could be wrong but it seems people wouldn't deliberately set themselves up to fail by applying to colleges with a rigorous curriculum that might be too much for them, based on their SATs or other criteria.
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Who in their right mind is going to based their belief in their own ability based on a stupid fucking test? All the way through high school I had teachers and councilors tell me I couldn't go to college, let alone study science. I was also told by about half of my advisers in college that I wasn't grad school material. In both cases I proved them wrong. I got into State U without even taking the SAT or ACT. I spent my first two terms on academic probation as a result but ended those two terms with a 3.4 GPA in biology major. My junior year I was discouraged by several advisers from applying for grad school as I only had a 3.0 GPA and it wasn't considered good enough. I nailed a 40 on the MCAT and was promptly accepted to a small professional school notorious for its level of difficulty.

So I would charge again, that this argument is based on a false premise. That the minority kids accepted to these schools are not qualified. The fact that others may have arguably better qualifications does not mean that these kids are not qualified.

This is the sort of soft bigotry that drives my African American friends crazy. It's like the morons who condescendingly compliment my wife about her English being so good. It just makes her roll her eyes and she'd like to say "Why wouldn't it be good? I've been speaking English since I was 6! How many languages do you speak well? I speak 5".
 
christiefan915 said:
This is opinion: " I’m just not impressed by the fact that — that the University of Texas may have fewer. Maybe it ought to have fewer." and "And — and I — I don’t think it — it — it stands to reason that it’s a good thing for the University of Texas to admit as many blacks as possible."
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She has you there Wacko.

Ultimately Scalia's argument is unsound as it is not the University of Texas intention to "....admit as many blacks as possible." rather it is their attempt to create a student body that is representative of the demographics of the entire State and not just affluent upwardly mobile white people.".
 
Norah said:
I think you'd be surprised by how many high school students apply for recognizable universities that they have no shot of getting accepted to. Why apply for West Texas A&M University when you can apply for Texas A&M University? or University of Texas-Tyler when you can apply to the University of Texas? You think to yourself basically that if I can get in then i'll make D's and C's but i'll get my degree from a big name school.
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Hell no. You think I'll have better instructors and educational opportunities and that I'll have to bust my ass to take advantage of those and that will give me an excellent spring board to a better future.

Think about what you're saying Nora. Did you apply for your college based on a expectation to fail?

My GPA when I graduated from high school was a 1.8. I didn't take either the ACT or SAT my senior year because my parents couldn't afford to pay the exam fee. Neither of those situations were my fault but it happened. I had to deal with it. I only had two schools I could apply for because they were the only ones that would admit me and that I could pay the tuition for with student loans and were close enough to where I lived geographically (I couldn't afford to live on campus). They were Ohio State and Wright State. Both schools had to accept me cause I had a high school degree from that State. I chose Wright State as they had the better Biology department. Wright State admitted me under academic probation for my first two terms and I would have to have a GPA of 2.25 or better to be released from probation after those two terms. At the end of my second term I had a 3.4 GPA...in a science major.

You know what the truth is Nora? No one in the real world really cares what school you went to that much. OK....so you went to Harvard and studies Art History. Big Whoop. Went to MIT and studied chemical engineering? Now that impresses....of course it's impressive if you went to State U and studied chemical engineering and State U has high accreditation standards. Chemical Engineering is hard. Art History isn't.

It's not where you went to school. It's what you studied and how good you've become at that subsequently.
 
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Norah said:
That's right, if, but what if they accept you because of your skin color and a need to make the campus feel more diverse? Is that truly in the best interest of the student that academically had no shot but because of something they can't control gets a spot over a student that met or surpassed the qualifications? I think that's really the essence behind why so many people don't like the idea of affirmative action. Someone is punished regardless because of something they cant control, skin color.
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Again, that's an assumption of your part that because a person of color may be subjectively less qualified than their white counterpart that they are not at all qualified. Soft racism Nora....you gotta be careful about that. Think it through!
 
cawacko said:
I've read his remarks a couple of times. If I thought they were bigoted i would say so. Scalia is not above reproach. He's asking the question about results of students who have gotten in to a higher rates school than their grades would normally allow. That's a legitimate topic.
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I've read them several times and by any objective measure it's soft racism by Scalia. He may not be intending to be overtly racist but he's making an opinion, using convoluted reasoning based on a false premise about a race.

The false premise here and what makes this soft racism is that Scalia is assuming that unqualified candidates are being accepted. I've never met a person who graduated from a University where they were admitted based on AA who wasn't qualified. They hold that qualification in their hand. It's called "A Degree". What makes Scalia's comments "soft racism" is he is suggesting that an entire race of people accept a lower standard of excellence in order that theycan play catch up and maybe someday, compete with better qualified white people. If you can't see the inherit racism here Wacko you're blind.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Which is a false premise. Because there are candidates with arguably better qualifications doesn't mean that the people of color who are chosen are not qualified.

This Wacko is what my black friends call "Soft racism" and it seriously pisses them off. I mean the African American argument is hard to counter. If they represent 15% of the total population and they are paying 15% of the taxes to that State and that University is a tax payer funded University than they are well within their rights to see that school populated with 15% of the best and brightest African American kids in the State as opposed to paying 15% of the taxes and virtually none of your kids getting an opportunity to attend cause some conservative old bigots don't think they are qualified. As tax payers they have paid for admission to the party.
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Affirmative action demands that unqualified applicants be accepted. Schools are happy to accept qualified ones of any sort.
 
Norah said:
Did I wrong you in some way?
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Relax. It's "The Dude". You're not really part of the JPP family until you've been burned by "The Dude". Since that has now happened....welcome to our disfunctional family.

Just tell him to "Have a toke and a smile and shut the fuck up.". He'll get your point. ;)

No, you didn't harm him. Let's say he strongly disagrees with you and isn't sparing your feelings. That's The Dude.

The Dude is a retired oil company executive who, like me, had been a long time Republican but left the party due to it's radicalization by the Southern Strategy and how it has become the party of rednecks and has drifted into far right wing extremism. Neither one of us have much patience with how a lot of rednecks rationalize their racism. Disgusting bigots like ILA, Truth Deflector, Nova, Racist X, etc. If you find yourself agreeing with their views on race....you may want to re-evaluate your views as they are cold hard unapologetic racist.
 
Celticguy said:
No. Just a lefty. Pay him no mind. Most likely deep in the bong water.
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The Dude? A lefty? Look....being slightly to the left of Attila the Hun does not make one a lefty. The Dude may have gone Rasta on us but one thing he is not is a lefty.

The Dude is what used to be a garden variety main street, chamber of commerce, pro-business Republican or what today is called by the wingnut faction of the GOP...a RINO. Just cause someone is into some weed don't make them a liberal.

The Dude has always been an equal opportunity cynic. He takes as many cheap shots at left wing lunacy as he does the KKKonservative nut jobs.
 
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