Into the Night
Verified User
I am not you, Sybil. You cannot blame your sock problem on anybody else.
Save act passes the house
- Thread starter LichGold
- Start date
Into the Night
Verified User
I am not IBDaMann, Sybil. You can't blame your sock problem on anybody else.
ZenMode
Well-known member
What the SAVE Act is saving us from:
.1% of illegally registered voters, of which 0% have voted.
Utah review finds more than 99.9% of registered voters are US citizens
SALT LAKE CITY (KUTV) — Initial findings from a citizenship review of all registered voters in Utah show that more than 99.9% of voters are verifiably U.S. citizens.
Lt. Gov. Deidre Henderson released the citizenship review update Friday after the state began the process last year of reviewing all registered voters.
The lieutenant governor’s office assessed voter records for more than 2 million voters and reported finding one voter who appeared to be a noncitizen. The update said the individual never voted and was promptly removed from the voter rolls.
Official Government announcement
drive.google.com
.1% of illegally registered voters, of which 0% have voted.
Utah review finds more than 99.9% of registered voters are US citizens
SALT LAKE CITY (KUTV) — Initial findings from a citizenship review of all registered voters in Utah show that more than 99.9% of voters are verifiably U.S. citizens.
Lt. Gov. Deidre Henderson released the citizenship review update Friday after the state began the process last year of reviewing all registered voters.
The lieutenant governor’s office assessed voter records for more than 2 million voters and reported finding one voter who appeared to be a noncitizen. The update said the individual never voted and was promptly removed from the voter rolls.
Official Government announcement
Citizenship review process.pdf
drive.google.com
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
Okay, and so? If the SAVE act only ensures what is already in place, why are you opposed to it, which from your tenor appears to be the case?What the SAVE Act is saving us from:
.1% of illegally registered voters, of which 0% have voted.
Utah review finds more than 99.9% of registered voters are US citizens
SALT LAKE CITY (KUTV) — Initial findings from a citizenship review of all registered voters in Utah show that more than 99.9% of voters are verifiably U.S. citizens.
Lt. Gov. Deidre Henderson released the citizenship review update Friday after the state began the process last year of reviewing all registered voters.
The lieutenant governor’s office assessed voter records for more than 2 million voters and reported finding one voter who appeared to be a noncitizen. The update said the individual never voted and was promptly removed from the voter rolls.
Official Government announcement
Citizenship review process.pdf
ZenMode
Well-known member
I'm fine with requiring ID to vote, but the lie from the right, especially Trump, is that we NEED to require ID because there's alllll this voter fraud in the form of illegals voting.
The SAVE act fixes a problem that doesn't exist and it's an imaginary problem the is continually propagated by the Right, particularly Trump.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
So, you're fine with the idea but upset that Trump and others are arguing that it's needed to prevent fraud. That seems rather petty on your part. It's obviously a good idea on many levels and for many reasons. It's really a commonsense thing. It seems to me that you are just looking for something to object to about it because Trump is for it.
Then what's the problem with passing it? It does fix a problem that is real however. That is loss of confidence in American institutions and election integrity by the public.
For example:
As you can see, overall confidence in elections hovers around 60%. Sure, Trump voters are down around 30%, while Democrats (Biden voters) are at about 95%. Where is the harm in passing a law that raises those confidence levels, even if only by say, 10%? We need to have confidence in the process, not erode it.
Yakuda
Verified User
I have to show an ID to cash a check and my own bank you can do it when you vote.A Solution in Search of a Problem
While the goal of ensuring only eligible citizens vote is important, evidence suggests the SAVE Act is addressing a problem that largely doesn't exist.
According to the Migration Policy Institute, noncitizen voting in U.S. elections is "exceedingly rare." A study by the Brennan Center for Justice of the 2016 election found just 0.0001% of 23.5 million votes cast in 42 jurisdictions surveyed were suspected noncitizen votes. Forty of those 42 jurisdictions reported no known incidents of noncitizen voting.
The database of election fraud cases maintained by the Heritage Foundation (a conservative organization deeply invested in proving widespread voter fraud is real) identified only 23 instances of noncitizen voting between 2003 and 2022. And according to the Bipartisan Policy Center, there were only 77 instances of noncitizens voting between 1999 and 2023.
Several states have conducted audits of their voter rolls. The Associated Press reported that states including North Carolina, Georgia, Arizona, California, and Texas reviewed their voter rolls between 2016 and 2022 and found fewer than 50 noncitizens in each state had voted in recent elections, out of upwards of 23 million total votes per state.
These findings are unsurprising given the severe consequences for noncitizens who attempt to vote. Federal law already prohibits noncitizens from voting in federal elections, with penalties including up to five years in federal prison and potential deportation. The current voter registration system also requires applicants to affirm under penalty of perjury that they are U.S. citizens.
The SAVE Act: Addressing a Non-Existent Problem at the Cost of Voter Access?
In July 2024, I wrote about the Safeguard American Voter Eligibility (SAVE) Act when it was first introduced in Congress. And Sarah and I discussed it in an episode of Beyond the Bill Number which you can still listen to. Now, in April 2025, the SAVE Act has been reintroduced in the 119th...thefulcrum.us
Yakuda
Verified User
Why make it harder to own a gun? It's a.right no different than voting. Why impede peoples access to it? And don't try the it's more dangerous nonsense. Far more harm can be done by voting. Wouldnt you agree regarding people voting for trump? Let's save time of course you would.
Yakuda
Verified User
So you're saying it IS possible to prove that something didn't happen? If no on is
asked to prove who they are when they vote how do they know when an irregularity has occurred?
ZenMode
Well-known member
A loss of confidence because the President is constantly lying to us.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
A separate issue. Don't conflate things. Americans don't have confidence in the election process. I demonstrated that. Passing legislation--CONGRESS passing legislation--that would potentially improve that confidence is the issue here.
How does Trump signing off on the SAVE Act hurt confidence in the election process?
ZenMode
Well-known member
It's not a separate issue. The distrust started because of Trump. He, and his band of conspiracy theorists, liars and gullible fools, killed the trust in elections and now you're saying we need to pass a bill to account for his lying?
Maybe he should just be honest.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
No, it didn't. Both sides in this are at least equally culpable. You distrust Trump and Republicans. Trump supporters distrust Biden / Harris / Obama and Democrats. Both sides foist off conspiracy theories. You simply choose to believe only the ones against Republicans and Trump while ignoring the rest.
The way I see the SAVE Act is that is the anthesis of the For the Voter's and John Lewis Voter's Acts the Democrats tried to pass. Are you familiar with those and the contents? Those were truly attempts to undermine the US election process.
Maybe YOU should just be objective and honest yourself.
Sure, that said, Trump is a bloviating, hyperbolic, asshole. He certainly knows how to push people's buttons. But he also isn't evil incarnate.
ZenMode
Well-known member
"Maybe YOU should just be objective and honest yourself."
It's not me being dishonest. This voter confidence issue started in 2016 when Trump started lying about losing the popular vote because 3 million illegals voted. A flat-out lie. For his entire time in office, he has been lying about voter fraud.
I've been following politics closely since Obama's first term. I was one of the Republicans that believed the lies about voter fraud, spread by conservatives like Rush and Hannity.
This current issue lies squarely at the feet of Trump and all the other liars on the Right.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
Voter confidence has ALWAYS been an issue.
Tammany Hall
Boss Tweed
Huey Long
The Chicago Machine / Mayor Dailey
To mention just a few of the more egregious breeches of voter confidence in US history. You might also note, that throughout US history, it's usually--not always but usually--the Democrats that are the ones running some voter fraud / election hijinks scam or another.
ZenMode
Well-known member
Not like it is now.
Individual incidents aren't remotely close to the lies spread by Trump, not to mention that HE is the one who ACTUALLY tried to steal the 2020 election.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
"Individual incidents? Try mass voter fraud, electioneering, and outright criminal action on a mass scale.
Boss Tweed (aka William Magear Tweed) in New York ran one of the most scandalous and brazen voter fraud operations in US history.
The Story Of New York's Insanely Corrupt Boss Tweed
William Boss Tweed, the Tweed Ring, and the Tammany Hall organization tore through New York City with more corruption than any other politician in American history.
allthatsinteresting.com
The Daley Machine in Chicago was infamous in US history for corrupt election fraud.
The Birth and Death of Chicago's Machine
<em>Clout City,</em> a new book by historian Dominic A. Pacyga, traces the rise and fall of Chicago-style politics. Here’s what we learned.
www.chicagomag.com
Trump doesn't even make the list for voter fraud and corruption
Most Rigged, Fraudulent, And Corrupt U.S. Elections In History
Since the United States was founded, it has seen a number of controversial ballots, candidates, and outcomes.
www.worldatlas.com
ZenMode
Well-known member
No, Trump is just the most prolific liar ever to hold the presidency and the cause of voter distrust."Individual incidents? Try mass voter fraud, electioneering, and outright criminal action on a mass scale.
Boss Tweed (aka William Magear Tweed) in New York ran one of the most scandalous and brazen voter fraud operations in US history.
The Story Of New York's Insanely Corrupt Boss Tweed
William Boss Tweed, the Tweed Ring, and the Tammany Hall organization tore through New York City with more corruption than any other politician in American history.
The Daley Machine in Chicago was infamous in US history for corrupt election fraud.
The Birth and Death of Chicago's Machine
<em>Clout City,</em> a new book by historian Dominic A. Pacyga, traces the rise and fall of Chicago-style politics. Here’s what we learned.
Trump doesn't even make the list for voter fraud and corruption
Most Rigged, Fraudulent, And Corrupt U.S. Elections In History
Since the United States was founded, it has seen a number of controversial ballots, candidates, and outcomes.
Voting isn't the same as it was in the past. The technology, security, etc make Trump's claims blatantly ridiculous, which is why he has never backed up his lies.