Sally Ride

[Cancel 2016.11]

It is always clear when you lose an argument. You begin regurgitating over and over and over again how someone else is 'enraged' etc...

If by losing the argument you mean proving that you don't know shit from shinola about feminism, its history and accomplishments, and that you are a rabid anti-abortion fanatic, then I sure did lose!

 

[Mott the Hoople]

I am sorry Moot but that's just too simplistic, I agree with SF that there seems to be a revisionist movement in the US claiming that the feminists of the '60s were responsible for all the changes today. As always the truth is far more complex but Darla doesn't do complex.

Yea but you also agree with him on climate change. Specious reasoning. Feminism has a long history in the US dating back to the late 19th century and the drive for suffrage and prohibition movement but you two are underselling the womens movement of the last half of the 20th century which became much more militant in the 1970's where I have personally witnessed in my life time radical changes both in academics and in the work place for women.

Much of what has been accomplished by the feminist movement has changed focus over the years. Prior to 1950 it focused on equal rights before the law, i.e. marriage rights, children custody rights, voting rights, civil rights, contract rights, property rights, etc. That's what you and SF are referencing.

Things changed radically in the feminist movement in the 1960's to the 1980's which changed the focus to sense of cultural, political and economic injustice. It was during this period that women organized against institutionalized discrimination in academia and the work place and had a great deal of success in breaking through glass ceilings. Though that mostly had a limited impact to upper middle class women.

The womens movement then changed it's focus in the late 80's to focus on more global and universal issues such as rape, incest, prostitution, economic exploitation, procreation, racism, homophobia, sexism and classism. Those are womens issues that transcend economic, cultural and political classes as they affect most, if not all, women. This has been the era of radicalization as it has been a major paradigm shift from macro-political inequality issues, in which much common ground can be found with men, to micro-political issues that often challenges the traditional views and notions of the roles of women in society. In other words it's been a shift from a focus on injustice and inequalities to a focus on self determination in defining femininity and womens roles in society. It is this view that has polarized the political right, particularly men, in recent years and threatens men as there has been a sustained attack on male dominance of our political systems. That's why you see many men, particularly on the political right, attempting to marginalize the current womens movement as "Feminazi's" as it threatens their paradigm of what womens roles should be. It has also had the impact of bringnig far more women into the movement as it is currently focused on more universal issues that appeal to a far wider population of women than the movement had in the past.

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

Yea but you also agree with him on climate change. Specious reasoning. Feminism has a long history in the US dating back to the late 19th century and the drive for suffrage and prohibition movement but you two are underselling the womens movement of the last half of the 20th century which became much more militant in the 1970's where I have personally witnessed in my life time radical changes both in academics and in the work place for women.

Much of what has been accomplished by the feminist movement has changed focus over the years. Prior to 1950 it focused on equal rights before the law, i.e. marriage rights, children custody rights, voting rights, civil rights, contract rights, property rights, etc. That's what you and SF are referencing.

Things changed radically in the feminist movement in the 1960's to the 1980's which changed the focus to sense of culural, political and economic injustice. It was during this period that women organized against institutionalized discrimination in academia and the work place and had a great deal of success in breaking through glass ceilings. Though that mostly had a limited impact to upper middle class women.

The womens movement then changed it's focus in the late 80's to focus on more global and universal issues such as rape, incest, prostitution, economic exploitation, procreation, racism, homophobia, sexism and classism. Those are womens issues that transcend economic, cultural and political classes as they affect most, if not all, women. This has been the era of radicalization as it has been a major paradigm shift from macro-political inequality issues, in which much common ground can be found with men, to micro-political issues that often challenges the traditional views and notions of the roles of women in society. In other words it's been a shift from a focus on injustice and inequalities to a focus on self determination in defining femininity and womens roles in society. It is this view that has polarized the political right, particularly men, in recent years and threatens men as there has been a sustained attack on male dominance of our political systems. That's why you see many men, particularly on the political right, attempting to marginalize the current womens movement as "Feminazi's" as it threatens their paradigm of what womens roles should be.

Yea but you also agree with him on climate change. A very important observation and one I wanted to bring up but then didn't want to derail yet again.

BTW Mott I had no idea you were so well-versed in feminism. Hiding it huh?

Awesome post and dead-on!

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Yea but you also agree with him on climate change. A very important observation and one I wanted to bring up but then didn't want to derail yet again.

BTW Mott I had no idea you were so well-versed in feminism. Hiding it huh?

Awesome post and dead-on!

I live in a college town Darla. You can't swing a dead cat by the tail without hitting a radical feminist around here.

I also became interested through the women I know who have been involved in the feminist movement. There's my sister the butch lesbian, my ex who was a serial rape/incest victim and suffered from PTSD and a close aquantance who has a PhD in communications and taught womens issues and did research in gender roles who was also a life style dominatrix. All three have been actively involved in womens issues/movement but from very different perspectives.

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

I live in a college town Darla. You can't swing a dead cat by the tail without hitting a radical feminist around here.

I also became interested through the women I know who have been involved in the feminist movement. There's my sister the butch lesbian, my ex who was a serial rape/incest victim and suffered from PTSD and a close aquantance who has a PhD in communications and taught womens issues and did research in gender roles who was also a life style dominatrix. All three have been actively involved in womens issues/movement but from very different perspectives.

Yes, they would be. Wow. I wish I lived in a college town. If there is one time of my life I miss, it's my college years. Very much. I am sorry about your ex.

 

[CanceledB]

I live in a college town Darla. You can't swing a dead cat by the tail without hitting a radical feminist around here.

I also became interested through the women I know who have been involved in the feminist movement. There's my sister the butch lesbian, my ex who was a serial rape/incest victim and suffered from PTSD and a close aquantance who has a PhD in communications and taught womens issues and did research in gender roles who was also a life style dominatrix. All three have been actively involved in womens issues/movement but from very different perspectives.

It really seems like you've got something against cats, though....

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

It really seems like you've got something against cats, though....

Screw the cats! I'll give him the cats! LOL

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Yes, they would be. Wow. I wish I lived in a college town. If there is one time of my life I miss, it's my college years. Very much. I am sorry about your ex.

Not as sorry as I am. I hope she's found a way to chase away her demons. Thanks though.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

It really seems like you've got something against cats, though....

That's not true! I love cats!! They're absolutely delicious braised in a soy/ginger sauce with some lemon grass and a touch of tamarand.

 

[CanceledB]

 

[Howey]

Gays are statistically bigger achievers and contributors to our society than hetros are.

Don't forget we're more intelligent too.

Um, she could have come out decades ago and the vast majority would not have had a problem with it. She chose to keep it private. Respect that.

26 years ago? Being in the astronaut corps was akin to being in the military. If she'd come out, they'd kick her out. der...

You have no way of knowing that since you have no idea what her professional circle was like. Just more marching onward assured of your rightness.

See above.

I praise Sally Ride and state what an inspiration she was to young people

Just think how much more of an inspiration Ride would have been to young gay men and women if she hadn't have hide in the closet all those years ago.

 

[cancel2 2022]

Yea but you also agree with him on climate change. Specious reasoning. Feminism has a long history in the US dating back to the late 19th century and the drive for suffrage and prohibition movement but you two are underselling the womens movement of the last half of the 20th century which became much more militant in the 1970's where I have personally witnessed in my life time radical changes both in academics and in the work place for women.

Much of what has been accomplished by the feminist movement has changed focus over the years. Prior to 1950 it focused on equal rights before the law, i.e. marriage rights, children custody rights, voting rights, civil rights, contract rights, property rights, etc. That's what you and SF are referencing.

Things changed radically in the feminist movement in the 1960's to the 1980's which changed the focus to sense of cultural, political and economic injustice. It was during this period that women organized against institutionalized discrimination in academia and the work place and had a great deal of success in breaking through glass ceilings. Though that mostly had a limited impact to upper middle class women.

The womens movement then changed it's focus in the late 80's to focus on more global and universal issues such as rape, incest, prostitution, economic exploitation, procreation, racism, homophobia, sexism and classism. Those are womens issues that transcend economic, cultural and political classes as they affect most, if not all, women. This has been the era of radicalization as it has been a major paradigm shift from macro-political inequality issues, in which much common ground can be found with men, to micro-political issues that often challenges the traditional views and notions of the roles of women in society. In other words it's been a shift from a focus on injustice and inequalities to a focus on self determination in defining femininity and womens roles in society. It is this view that has polarized the political right, particularly men, in recent years and threatens men as there has been a sustained attack on male dominance of our political systems. That's why you see many men, particularly on the political right, attempting to marginalize the current womens movement as "Feminazi's" as it threatens their paradigm of what womens roles should be. It has also had the impact of bringnig far more women into the movement as it is currently focused on more universal issues that appeal to a far wider population of women than the movement had in the past.

Let's just take one of those issues namely rape. Under the last Labour government the definition of rape was changed from penetrative sex only to include what had previously been termed sexual assault. This was done purely and simply as a political imperative to increase the number of convictions. They also decided to keep the woman's identity secret whilst allowing the Press to publish the man's name. This was ostensibly to allow other women to come forward, yet there is no other crime than permits this type of gross inequality under the law. I believe that in the US it would be deemed unconstitutional. The Coalition wanted to change this when they came in but backed down because they were attacked by a variety of single issue groups. There are many more aspects of British law I could highlight but they can wait for now.

As for climate change, there are a few on the Left who do not subscribe to AGW, Christopher Hitchens, Alexander Cockburn, Dr. Denis Rancourt and Christopher Booker are some that spring to mind.

http://www.climatedepot.com/a/7477/Leftwing-Env-Scientist-Bails-Out-Of-Global-Warming-Movement-Declares-it-a-corrupt-social-phenomenonstrictly-an-imaginary-problem-of-the-1st-World-middleclass

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Let's just take one of those issues namely rape. Under the last Labour government the definition of rape was changed from penetrative sex only to include what had previously been termed sexual assault. This was done purely and simply as a political imperative to increase the number of convictions. They also decided to keep the woman's identity secret whilst allowing the Press to publish the man's name. This was ostensibly to allow other women to come forward, yet there is no other crime than permits this type of gross inequality under the law. I believe that in the US it would be deemed unconstitutional. The Coalition wanted to change this when they came in but backed down because they were attacked by a variety of single issue groups. There are many more aspects of British law I could highlight but they can wait for now.

As for climate change, there are a few on the Left who do not subscribe to AGW, Christopher Hitchens, Alexander Cockburn, Dr. Denis Rancourt and Christopher Booker are some that spring to mind.

http://www.climatedepot.com/a/7477/Leftwing-Env-Scientist-Bails-Out-Of-Global-Warming-Movement-Declares-it-a-corrupt-social-phenomenonstrictly-an-imaginary-problem-of-the-1st-World-middleclass

Whether we agree with the issue or not isn't my point. My point was that you and SF were underselling the modern feminist movement. You're comment does support my point though in that the change in focus to micro-political issues, such as rape for example, has garnered more support and advocacy of a far broader range of women. Otherwise such political change as you noted would not be possible. The current feminist movement has been quite affective at creating change on these issues and laying further ground work for the future on womens issues. Now whether we agree with those specific changes on these micro-political issues as men, is a different conversation.

 

[cancel2 2022]

Whether we agree with the issue or not isn't my point. My point was that you and SF were underselling the modern feminist movement. You're comment does support my point though in that the change in focus to micro-political issues, such as rape for example, has garnered more support and advocacy of a far broader range of women. Otherwise such political change as you noted would not be possible. The current feminist movement has been quite affective at creating change on these issues and laying further ground work for the future on womens issues. Now whether we agree with those specific changes on these micro-political issues as men, is a different conversation.

Yes, it's gone from wanting equality to wanting to be granted special privileges and it is 100% wrong. There has been any number of case where a man has been accused of rape and because of the publicity loses his job, marriage and children yet is subsequently proved innocent. There is no way that can be justified as far as I'm concerned. When I get a chance I will turn to the subject of Family Courts in the UK. I am going swimming now with my son down at the university sports centre.

As a total aside, did you see the thread I posted about Bradley Wiggins?

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Yes, it's gone from wanting equality to wanting to be granted special privileges and it is 100% wrong. There has been any number of case where a man has been accused of rape and because of the publicity loses his job, marriage and children yet is subsequently proved innocent. There is no way that can be justified as far as I'm concerned. When I get a chance I will turn to the subject of Family Courts in the UK. I am going swimming now with my son down at the university sports centre.

As a total aside, did you see the thread I posted about Bradley Wiggins?

Yes, jabbered extensively on it. Twas a great TdF this year. Though I have to admit. I would enjoy a TdF that would for once break out of the Indurain mold of, conserve energy in the early flat stages, crush the competition in the time trial, consolidate your gains and limit your opponents gains in the mountain stages. It's becoming boring. each year one team dominates.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Yes, it's gone from wanting equality to wanting to be granted special privileges and it is 100% wrong. There has been any number of case where a man has been accused of rape and because of the publicity loses his job, marriage and children yet is subsequently proved innocent. There is no way that can be justified as far as I'm concerned. When I get a chance I will turn to the subject of Family Courts in the UK. I am going swimming now with my son down at the university sports centre.

As a total aside, did you see the thread I posted about Bradley Wiggins?

It would appear so to us but we're men. Isn't that the nature of political lobbying? Much of our modern history (e.g. last 500 years) us men lobbied special priveleges for us while discriminating against women. If we can do it why can't they? I'm not saying that's right but thats the nature of politics and again, it emphasises my point at how affective feminist politics has become in the last 20 years using the micro-political paradigm to address issues which are important to women.

 

[Phantasmal]

As I put up on my fb page... far too young, but she apparently had pancreatic cancer and fought it for over 18 months. A true pioneer. Her work to try and get young people, especially young girls, interested in science and setting an example for all young women that it was ok to be brilliant and to play in a 'man's' field was inspirational.

She broke the glass ceiling with her launch in 83, followed by Resnick in 84 (who unfortunately was also on Challenger in 86 along with the school teacher Christa and five others).

I am sure it was the womens movement of the 80's and beyond that allowed Sally to earn her PhD and become an astronaut all by 1983. Right Darla?

You were doing a great job, and then you just couldn't resist turning into an asshole.

 

[cancel2 2022]

It would appear so to us but we're men. Isn't that the nature of political lobbying? Much of our modern history (e.g. last 500 years) us men lobbied special priveleges for us while discriminating against women. If we can do it why can't they? I'm not saying that's right but thats the nature of politics and again, it emphasises my point at how affective feminist politics has become in the last 20 years using the micro-political paradigm to address issues which are important to women.

Mott, what the fuck is wrong with you? My only criteria is whether it is right or wrong and it is most definitely wrong. To justify it by saying that men had special privileges before is just barking mad.

 

[Phantasmal]

That's not true! I love cats!! They're absolutely delicious braised in a soy/ginger sauce with some lemon grass and a touch of tamarand.

Gross! Just couldn't go there!

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

I've tried telling people that Tom is an MRA, a Male Right's Activist but they usually don't know what that means.

Now with his rape bullshit you are seeing the ugly underbelly. Women get special treatment in rape cases. How does that taste ladies? You like that? How about men who love a rape victim. You like that?

I'm glad. It should be exposed. I picked it up right away because he has been using coded language directly from MRA sites for some time. And it is a very ugly, highly misogynistic movement.