Russians; ' All war goals must be met '
- Thread starter moon
- Start date
It isn't. That particular talking point is weak even by the standards of Putin apologetics. By definition, military expansionism is the opposite of equilibrium.
In the past, I spoke up for Russia, when I thought the US was overstepping. For example, I thought it was out-of-bounds for us to pressure Germany not to do business with Russia on natural gas. If Russia wanted to sell their product and Germany wanted to buy it, that was between the two of them, and nobody else should interfere (other than in the same way as they might encourage ANY country to try to limit fossil fuel dependence, regardless of source).
But this isn't about US overreach. This is about Russia trying to disrupt the international order in order to seize new land. I believe the rest of the world needs to stand up to it and not allow Russia to secure a single inch of new land that way.... the same way we did with Iraq when it seized Kuwait. We need to send a clear and consistent message that military aggression will NEVER succeed in expanding a country's territory. If that isn't clear and consistent, we'll just see more aggression (maybe next time with China going after Taiwan or Japanese islands). Equilibrium can only be maintained if everyone understands that expansion can only happen by way of willing actions (e.g., East Germany willingly join West, without a shot fired).
It's a "point" he's been making right along, a sign of how far the rails he is on this.
well if you post something you knew I "wouldn't understand" that is just plain weird
I dont go back and explain posts - "the moving finger having writ moves on"
But if someone asks me to clarify something I said in a decent manner I will
Further I try to make my post clear enough to avoid that - but it can still happen.
I gave you a c/p of history of Ukraine's NATO's desires.
Did you notice the "pro-Russian" Viktor Yanukovych policy on NATO? It's important.
That wasn't good enough for McCain and the Obama State dept -so they set about undermining him
with NGOs and were on the ground of the Euromaidan to make damn sure the riot
turned into the revolution to oust him
This is what we've been doing to a supposed "neutral buffer state" - making it part of the west
and defacto NATO
moon
Satire for Sanity
Sugared Zelenskyism. You have a pitiful understanding and a large mouth to transmit it with.
gawd almighty. you condemn Putin for ruining Russia's economy but it was western sanctions that did it.'
Then you say he's out to "conquer Eastern Europe"- do you get it when I said this was just noise?
Obama tried Russian reset. His State dept undermined it. The Euromaidan was that manifestation.
Trump campaigned on improving Russian relations, but Hillary Clinton and the FBI launched the Russian Hoax. that is 8 years where relations went downhill -caused by the USA - not Russia.
Biden comes in and calls Russia the number 1 threat -absolutely refuses to negotiate with the
letters Lavrov delivered on Russian redlines . then the war started
It aint Putin that was out to destroy US/Russian relations -it was the USA
I didn’t lie. The answer is based on my memory of the sum of your argument. If I got wrong, I apologize. But why are you harping on an old coup as justifying a new war or on Ukrainian Nazis when the country generally is not that at all?
moon
Satire for Sanity
Your memory is shaped by your bias. I'm not inclined to correct your ignorance of US interference in Ukraine's democracy.
Sanctions are totally ineffectual unless you can convince a large share of countries to go along with them. It was Russia’s criminality that did that. Specifically, it was Putin‘s use of force outside his own country. No point whining for the little bitch.
As you know, Russia’s interference with our election wasn’t a hoax. We know for certain that it happened. We have the actual emails involved, including ones where Trump’s son, son-in-law, and campaign chair agreed to meet in secret with known Russian agents for the express purpose of getting Putin‘s help in the election.
that was opposition research,it wasn't Russian collusion/conspiracy or weissmann (Mueller) would have charged Trup. There was no quid pro quo - no collusion
But that's not the Russia Hoax. I cant believe i have to separate this out for you but OK
The Russian H. was Hillary pay for and using the Steele dossier and the alpha bank crap they ginned up to try to take out Trump when they knew it as all their fabrications
Then there was the Special Counsel - appointed by Rosenweasel when Page testified even then they had no evidence of any Trump collusion -going after a sitting president with no evidence
as to the topic that set back US Russian relations - and considering our meddling in Ukaine's Euromaidan, bombing Libya over a lie, and the Iraq war lie - FB bots are small potatos and certainly not enough
to disrupt relations
you post from such an extreme ignorance of the situation, it's like i have to do everything in remedial language
and no one is whining - shining a light on the foul actions of the USA at the Euromaidan is not whining for Putin. It's extremely important to understand the USA (Pyatt,Kagan, Nuland, McCain) were determined to get rid of Viktor Yanukovych, who was neutral on Ukraine joining NATO to put in a stooge friendly to the USA
That is evidenced by the Nuland phone call intercept
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957
There is more to it. McCain gave a Nazi salute for Svoboda, Nuland was running around with cupcakes
and urging on the protests to be "freedom fighters". and Robert Kagan one of the most notorious neocons
is Nuland's husband was was with her
They were doing this on their own, while US official policy was to try for a diplomatic "reset"-
IOW they took it upon themselves to undermine Obama's stated goals for resetting Russian relations
Maybe as much as yours is by your bias but looking back at some of your posts I doubt it.
Matt Dillon
Retardium User
Man, history will not look kindly on the Russians in this thing.
Is Putin trying to fuck his country's legacy forever? Russia has gained exactly jack shit and lost everything with what they've been doing.
They destroyed a bunch of Ukrainian homes because they has military stuff? Wtf?!
Shooting tanks at family homes. Great war there, Putin.
Matt Dillon
Retardium User
Idiot confirmed.
The only Russian influence in 2016 is what Zuckerberg allowed.
He took their rubles and allowed them to do their thing.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/01/us/politics/russia-2016-election-facebook.html
Grr, I did have the link to all the info gathered and published on a .gov website, and I thought I had it bookmarked. Apparently not.
Blackmatters and all like that.
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moon
Satire for Sanity
You appear to be hopelessly lost in the fog of Walmart.
Lightbringer
Loves Me Some Souls
I disagree, history will not look kind on us.
Matt Dillon
Retardium User
Fuck Walmart.
Matt Dillon
Retardium User
Fuck Walmart.