Russia faces a crisis of morality

Cypress

Well-known member
Putin has squandered the moral credit conferred on Russia by its immense contribution to the defeat of Nazi Germany. The tale of the Great Patriotic War is one dear to the Russian nation and has long been rehearsed in novels, movies, plays, and public monuments. Each of these attests to the rigors of that earlier war and extols the people’s heroism, sacrifice, gallantry, and triumph. Every Russian, irrespective of education or social standing, can recite this inspiring story—from the siege of Leningrad, to the battle of Stalingrad, to the storming of Berlin. Admittedly, Russia’s moral credit was taxed during the Cold War and some nonconformists raised inconvenient questions about the cult of the Great Patriotic War. But this moral credit was never exhausted, not even by the suppression of Hungarian reformers in 1956 or the 1968 crushing of the Dubcek regime in Prague or the 1979 invasion of Afghanistan. But now, thanks to Putin’s Ukrainian folly, the moral credit treasured by Russians since 1945 has been depleted.

Think of the awareness now dawning upon young conscripted Russian soldiers involved in a bungled war, evidently waging it without reliable logistics, and all the while enduring high casualty rates. The grandparents and great grandparents of these conscripts—as repeatedly taught via family lore and official accounts—won the greatest war in history and were decisive to saving humanity and civilization. But now, rooted in the experience of conscripts in Ukraine and through them seeping into broader Russian understanding, an inverted new tale is taking shape.

There is a glaring discrepancy between what Putin has said to justify his war and what conscripts in Ukraine are learning. The typical Russian conscript, whose age corresponds roughly to that of American college students, is not encountering Nazi drug addicts trying to perpetrate genocide against ethnic Russians. Not only is Putin’s mendacity revealed by the absence of Nazi villains. So, too, Putin’s nonsense about Ukraine as a bogus country without genuine identity is evidenced to conscripts by the steadfastness of Ukrainian soldiers that they fight and the vast support given them by civilians. These civilians, incidentally, include grandmothers of a kind familiar to any young Russian conscript. Now (and in coming weeks) he must withstand tongue-lashings from people who look like and sound like his own babushka—older women infuriated by the outrages committed by Russian lads in uniform, who by custom should be respectful of their elders, protective of the innocent, and bearers of sturdy morality.

In a foreshadowing of denunciations to come, an eighty-year old grandmother (a Russian incidentally) recently wrote an open letter to Putin’s young soldiers. It included these words:

“What will you gain from murdering your Ukrainian neighbors, who did not want war? Where is the joy in destroying an independent country that does not belong to you? . . . People around the world hate the destruction you’ve caused. Thousands of antiwar protestors in Russia will not respect you . . . Wake up from being brainwashed by false propaganda . . . The ghosts of murdered women, children and defenders of their country will haunt your nightmares.”

In effect, as the Russian soldiers in Ukraine will have to admit on the basis of their experience, the cloak of heroism has slipped off. Slipped off from Russia and settled on Ukraine, its people, and its leader. Mariupol has replaced Leningrad as a besieged city defiant against overwhelming odds. Kyiv and Kharkiv have replaced Stalingrad as sites of a brave people fighting for life against a ruthless foe.

Continued
https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/182826
 
"This is not only a chronicle of disaster and moral collapse, but a chronicle of idiocy, which is a shame on on the nation and it's elites.

Putin made a catastrophic, monstrous mistake, whose error was completely revealed within days of the invasion. But if he admits it, he loses the political capital he has cultivated for 20 years - the image of a cool and icy guy who takes enormous risks but always comes out the winner.

In order not to lose this capital, Putin drags Russia further into the brink of disaster. The paradox is that even if he succeeds it will be worse than failure. And worse than a pyrrhric victory - a Putin victory."

---> Kirill Rogov, Russian political scientist
(translated from Russian)
 
Are you talking about the guy who has liberated most of Eastern Ukraine from the Neo-Nazis and is preparing to remove them from the South ?

It doesn't actually look like a catalogue of failure does it.
 
Putin has squandered the moral credit conferred on Russia by its immense contribution to the defeat of Nazi Germany. The tale of the Great Patriotic War is one dear to the Russian nation and has long been rehearsed in novels, movies, plays, and public monuments. Each of these attests to the rigors of that earlier war and extols the people’s heroism, sacrifice, gallantry, and triumph. Every Russian, irrespective of education or social standing, can recite this inspiring story—from the siege of Leningrad, to the battle of Stalingrad, to the storming of Berlin. Admittedly, Russia’s moral credit was taxed during the Cold War and some nonconformists raised inconvenient questions about the cult of the Great Patriotic War. But this moral credit was never exhausted, not even by the suppression of Hungarian reformers in 1956 or the 1968 crushing of the Dubcek regime in Prague or the 1979 invasion of Afghanistan. But now, thanks to Putin’s Ukrainian folly, the moral credit treasured by Russians since 1945 has been depleted.

Think of the awareness now dawning upon young conscripted Russian soldiers involved in a bungled war, evidently waging it without reliable logistics, and all the while enduring high casualty rates. The grandparents and great grandparents of these conscripts—as repeatedly taught via family lore and official accounts—won the greatest war in history and were decisive to saving humanity and civilization. But now, rooted in the experience of conscripts in Ukraine and through them seeping into broader Russian understanding, an inverted new tale is taking shape.

There is a glaring discrepancy between what Putin has said to justify his war and what conscripts in Ukraine are learning. The typical Russian conscript, whose age corresponds roughly to that of American college students, is not encountering Nazi drug addicts trying to perpetrate genocide against ethnic Russians. Not only is Putin’s mendacity revealed by the absence of Nazi villains. So, too, Putin’s nonsense about Ukraine as a bogus country without genuine identity is evidenced to conscripts by the steadfastness of Ukrainian soldiers that they fight and the vast support given them by civilians. These civilians, incidentally, include grandmothers of a kind familiar to any young Russian conscript. Now (and in coming weeks) he must withstand tongue-lashings from people who look like and sound like his own babushka—older women infuriated by the outrages committed by Russian lads in uniform, who by custom should be respectful of their elders, protective of the innocent, and bearers of sturdy morality.

In a foreshadowing of denunciations to come, an eighty-year old grandmother (a Russian incidentally) recently wrote an open letter to Putin’s young soldiers. It included these words:

“What will you gain from murdering your Ukrainian neighbors, who did not want war? Where is the joy in destroying an independent country that does not belong to you? . . . People around the world hate the destruction you’ve caused. Thousands of antiwar protestors in Russia will not respect you . . . Wake up from being brainwashed by false propaganda . . . The ghosts of murdered women, children and defenders of their country will haunt your nightmares.”

In effect, as the Russian soldiers in Ukraine will have to admit on the basis of their experience, the cloak of heroism has slipped off. Slipped off from Russia and settled on Ukraine, its people, and its leader. Mariupol has replaced Leningrad as a besieged city defiant against overwhelming odds. Kyiv and Kharkiv have replaced Stalingrad as sites of a brave people fighting for life against a ruthless foe.

Continued
https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/182826

A little closer to home................

Thanks to Donald GRUMP and his GRUMPTARDS- AMERICA IS IN A MORALITY CRISIS MODE! [Geeko Sportivo]

And you may quote me on that if you like!
 
Are you talking about the guy who has liberated most of Eastern Ukraine from the Neo-Nazis and is preparing to remove them from the South ?

It doesn't actually look like a catalogue of failure does it.

You don't personally know any Russian or Ukrainian citizens, so I am sure this is just all some abstract message board game to you.
 
Are you talking about the guy who has liberated most of Eastern Ukraine from the Neo-Nazis and is preparing to remove them from the South ?

It doesn't actually look like a catalogue of failure does it.

Neo Nazis? Does that make sense to you? He is taking over Ukraine for his own reasons. They will be under a dictatorship. That Nazi shit convinces almost nobody.
 
You don't personally know any Russian or Ukrainian citizens, so I am sure this is just all some abstract message board game to you.

I know an Inuit and two Glaswegians. Don't they count in your patriot game ?
 
Neo Nazis? Does that make sense to you? He is taking over Ukraine for his own reasons. They will be under a dictatorship. That Nazi shit convinces almost nobody.

Your generalization is plainly silly. The Ukrainian Neo-Nazis are a real problem- check with Wiki- and a great many people know about them. Check with Wiki.

How long are you going to maintain your denials ?
 
The Ukrainian Neo-Nazis are a real problem- check with Wiki

I took your hint, moon, and looked up neo-Nazis in Wikipedia. You're right, the Russian neo-Nazis are a real problem!

< Members of far-right groups played a greater role on the pro-Russian side of the conflict than on the Ukrainian side ... Leaders of the Donetsk People's Republic are closely linked to the neo-Nazi party Russian National Unity (RNU) led by Alexander Barkashov. A member of RNU, Pavel Gubarev, was the first "governor" of the Donetsk People's Republic. In particular, RNU is linked to the Russian Orthodox Army, a separatist group in Donbas. Volunteers from several other Russian far-right groups have joined the separatist militias, including members of the Eurasian Youth Union, the Russian Imperial Movement, and the banned Slavic Union and Movement Against Illegal Immigration. [edit: Illegal immigration in Russia?] Other neo-Nazi groups fighting as part of the Donetsk People's Republic include the 'Svarozhich', 'Rusich' and 'Ratibor' battalions, which have Slavic swastikas on their badges. >

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism#Ukraine



Added: Putin had wavered between co-opting and cracking down on the far right, which he saw as a potentially dangerous rival for power. But when he made his first move on Ukraine in 2014, he had no qualms about allowing neo-Nazis to raise combat units. For a closer look at one of them, ‘Task force Rusich’, see:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-n...-send-notorious-neo-nazi-mercenaries-ukraine/
 
Last edited:
I thought we all subscribed to Capitalism where capital must circulate to help improve the standard of living of the market participants involved?
 
It is hard to grasp the reverence Russian peoples have for their grandfathers and grandmother's of the Great Patriotic War era, and the sacrifices they made. It is looked on as an ultimate existential struggle between good and evil, and conferred upon Soviet citizens a mantle of moral fortitude that the rest of the 20th century did not.

When I look at the images of Kharkiv and Marupiel bombed into rubble, it diminishes and robs the moral strength Russians inherited from the iconic stories of their grandparents holding out for three years in the rubble of Leningrad against the onslaught of murderous legions of Nazis.
 
Are you talking about the guy who has liberated most of Eastern Ukraine from the Neo-Nazis and is preparing to remove them from the South ?

It doesn't actually look like a catalogue of failure does it.

Wow

What a crappy shill you are
 
Your generalization is plainly silly. The Ukrainian Neo-Nazis are a real problem- check with Wiki- and a great many people know about them. Check with Wiki.

How long are you going to maintain your denials ?

You are a shill

You can’t be an American
 
Neo Nazis? Does that make sense to you? He is taking over Ukraine for his own reasons. They will be under a dictatorship. That Nazi shit convinces almost nobody.

He wants the land


He’s obviously killing the population because he doesn’t want them


Just the land and the Black Sea frontage
 
He’s stealing some people


Taking them into Russia


God only knows what he’s going to do to them
 
Are you talking about the guy who has liberated most of Eastern Ukraine from the Neo-Nazis and is preparing to remove them from the South ?

It doesn't actually look like a catalogue of failure does it.

The threat of authoritarianism comes from your hero, Vlad Putin.

Not from some obscure nationalist Rightwingers in Ukraine, Serbia, or Austria.

Putin is the role model for nationalist authoritarianism. That is exactly why Putin is widely admired by Donald Trump, MAGA fat asses, and rightwing nationalists across the planet.
 
"This is not only a chronicle of disaster and moral collapse, but a chronicle of idiocy, which is a shame on on the nation and it's elites.

Putin made a catastrophic, monstrous mistake, whose error was completely revealed within days of the invasion. But if he admits it, he loses the political capital he has cultivated for 20 years - the image of a cool and icy guy who takes enormous risks but always comes out the winner.

In order not to lose this capital, Putin drags Russia further into the brink of disaster. The paradox is that even if he succeeds it will be worse than failure. And worse than a pyrrhric victory - a Putin victory."

---> Kirill Rogov, Russian political scientist
(translated from Russian)
it was a bad mistake. I totally understand WHY ( the need for)
the invasion - but I also understand - and what he missed is Ukraine is loaded with NATO weapons.
FFS Putin's armor is worthless due to Javelin (ex.)

If he would have simply waltzed in to Donbas his security needs would have been improved-
not met but better - and Ukraine wouldn't have been put thru this misery
 
it was a bad mistake. I totally understand WHY ( the need for)
the invasion - but I also understand - and what he missed is Ukraine is loaded with NATO weapons.
FFS Putin's armor is worthless due to Javelin (ex.)

If he would have simply waltzed in to Donbas his security needs would have been improved-
not met but better - and Ukraine wouldn't have been put thru this misery

Javelins and stingers are defensive weapons which pose zero threat to Russia.

Even if Putin achieves a pyrrhic victory by occupying Donbass, it is still an epic strategic defeat. Putin made NATO more unified than it's ever been in history, he's going to drive Finland and Sweden towards NATO, and he's going to ensure NATO battlegroups are deployed to the Baltic nations and Poland to defend against anymore territorial expansion by Putin.

In the long run, Putin also ensured the economic demise of Russia, and they will be on a trajectory towards a third rate economic power for the 21st century.

2022 may be the year that defined the rest of the 21st century for Russia in the way 1917 defined the 20th century for Russia. In other words, two consecutive lost centuries where the enormous potential of the Russian people is squandered.
 
He wants the land


He’s obviously killing the population because he doesn’t want them


Just the land and the Black Sea frontage

What good are destroyed and abandoned cities? He's not just fighting for Black Sea footage.
 
"This is not only a chronicle of disaster and moral collapse, but a chronicle of idiocy, which is a shame on on the nation and it's elites.

Putin made a catastrophic, monstrous mistake, whose error was completely revealed within days of the invasion. But if he admits it, he loses the political capital he has cultivated for 20 years - the image of a cool and icy guy who takes enormous risks but always comes out the winner.

In order not to lose this capital, Putin drags Russia further into the brink of disaster. The paradox is that even if he succeeds it will be worse than failure. And worse than a pyrrhric victory - a Putin victory."

---> Kirill Rogov, Russian political scientist
(translated from Russian)

I've always had the opposite opinion, I don't see Putin as a great risk taker.
 
Back
Top