Republicans don't love or trust America anymore

[SmarterthanYou]

And Trump is without sin.

whataboutism

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello BartenderElite,

They don't trust our institutions, our elections, the media or our system. They see a conspiracy or "deep state" operative around every corner. They no longer see this country as working for their interests or protecting them.

They see the state as the enemy.

There are a lot of reasons for this. For some, it goes back to Ruby Ridge & Waco. For others, it's just that their guy - who they thought was unbeatable - lost. Subconsciously, I think many understand that changing demographics will make it harder to win elections without moderating or compromising. Consciously, they refer some of that to "replacement theory."

It's not sustainable for a country to have at least a third and as many as half of its citizens feel this way. So, we have to figure it out, and fix it. It's too easy to just dismiss these concerns and call them nutters, but the fear they have is real.

Turns out it might be better if all the liberals here took my example and dropped all the name-calling and derision:

Cult deprogramming exists.

"-Keep lines of communication open. The cult may try to shut you away from the person. Don't give them any excuses. Tell the person that you're there for them, and they can contact you any time.[5]

-Spend time with your loved one. The cult leader hopes that you'll do something drastic, that will make the person shun you. Don't do that.[6] Instead, be there for them and be kind. Invite them to hang out with you. Send cards, emails, or letters. Keep showing your love.

-Mention other friends and loved ones. This helps remind the person that their old life is still there for them, and they can come back to it. For example, "Jean is holding a party on Saturday and she's hoping you can come" and "Your brother said he misses you."[7]

-Be patient. The person may believe that the world revolves around their cult. However, they are unlikely to be open to other ideas unless they come to them.

-Be loving and non-judgmental. Being pushy or confrontational may lead to their resenting you and strengthen their faith in the cult. They may consider your efforts religious persecution. Be kind, loving (even to strangers) and understanding with them.

-Stay stable and safe. Provide a predictable, friendly environment. This helps build trust. The easier it is to leave a cult, the more likely the person will leave, so make your place be easy to access. "

How to Deprogram a Religious Cult Member

 

[Earl]

Hello BartenderElite,



Turns out it might be better if all the liberals here took my example and dropped all the name-calling and derision:

Cult deprogramming exists.

"-Keep lines of communication open. The cult may try to shut you away from the person. Don't give them any excuses. Tell the person that you're there for them, and they can contact you any time.[5]

-Spend time with your loved one. The cult leader hopes that you'll do something drastic, that will make the person shun you. Don't do that.[6] Instead, be there for them and be kind. Invite them to hang out with you. Send cards, emails, or letters. Keep showing your love.

-Mention other friends and loved ones. This helps remind the person that their old life is still there for them, and they can come back to it. For example, "Jean is holding a party on Saturday and she's hoping you can come" and "Your brother said he misses you."[7]

-Be patient. The person may believe that the world revolves around their cult. However, they are unlikely to be open to other ideas unless they come to them.

-Be loving and non-judgmental. Being pushy or confrontational may lead to their resenting you and strengthen their faith in the cult. They may consider your efforts religious persecution. Be kind, loving (even to strangers) and understanding with them.

-Stay stable and safe. Provide a predictable, friendly environment. This helps build trust. The easier it is to leave a cult, the more likely the person will leave, so make your place be easy to access. "

How to Deprogram a Religious Cult Member

Good advice for you, cultist.

 

[domer76]

What's funny about all this is that you see absolutely no reason whatsoever to question any of those things...unless republicans are in charge. LMFAO Isn't that right? Of course it is. Its like shooting fish in a barrel with you people.

I don't know how old you are but I'm old enough to remember a time when the media, most notably, always seemed to suspect the government was up to no good they just hadn't been caught. Politicians were legitimately afraid of the media but these days the media is the propaganda arm of the Democratic party. It's a fucking shame.

As citizens, it’s fine to question authority. To question our government. Pork spending. Massive influence of special interest groups. How our money is spent. How and why we send our troops in dangers way. On and on.

But, in Trump (and his followers), we had and have something entirely different. Trump, being an instigator of conspiracy theories from the getgo, has convinced his followers that everything is a conspiracy to get him.

Many still believe Obama is a Muslim born in Kenya.
Many still believe the Venezuelan conspiracy about our voting machines.
Many (most?) still hang on to the stolen election.
1/6 was a false flag operation.
The warrant on his home was a coverup for Operation Hurricane.
Fraud here, fake there, everywhere a hoax hoax. But only when he was criticized.
Anyone who criticized him was is/was automatically a liar and the enemy.

Trump openly and on the international stage took the side of Putin over our own intelligence agencies.

He openly lied about what he knew about COVID, downplayed it, openly shit on on one of the most knowledgeable and dedicated infectious disease experts, resulting in the unnecessary deaths of tens of thousands, if not more, Americans.

He gave tacit, even open approval, to white nationalists. Open racism, as seen on this forum and elsewhere, has become normalized.

His constant lies and distortions have normalized that behavior. His supporters ignore and/or condone it.

I’m not sure that Republicans, in general, don’t love or trust America. I think even Trump supporters, in their own twisted way, still love this country. But, they have allowed their minds to be poisoned by a toxic person. We’ve seen it before in cult leaders. Now, we’ve experienced it in one of our political leaders.

 

[domer76]

“They don't trust our institutions, our elections, the media or our system.”

Oh Hell no, we don’t trust these institutions.

You trusted them until Trump came on the scene and told you not to.

The FBI, DOJ and CIA were great until they started looking at your boy. Even though he has a lifetime history of lies and deceit.

Of course you don’t trust them. Trump told you so.

You trust Fox and Breitbart and WND and Limbaugh and Hannity and Tucker because they give you confirmation. Not because they are truthful.

You thought elections were fine until Trump told you his was stolen by Venezuelan voting machine, by stuffed ballot boxes, by a massive national conspiracy.

 

[domer76]

Let me correct you on something right away. It is not fear we have,.....it is hatred. Hatred for what has been done to our beloved nation and institutions.

Tell us what hate feels like.

Does it eat you up at night?
Does it make you want to injure or kill others?
Does it absorb your every thought?

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello domer76,

As citizens, it’s fine to question authority. To question our government. Pork spending. Massive influence of special interest groups. How our money is spent. How and why we send our troops in dangers way. On and on.

But, in Trump (and his followers), we had and have something entirely different. Trump, being an instigator of conspiracy theories from the getgo, has convinced his followers that everything is a conspiracy to get him.

Many still believe Obama is a Muslim born in Kenya.
Many still believe the Venezuelan conspiracy about our voting machines.
Many (most?) still hang on to the stolen election.
1/6 was a false flag operation.
The warrant on his home was a coverup for Operation Hurricane.
Fraud here, fake there, everywhere a hoax hoax. But only when he was criticized.
Anyone who criticized him was is/was automatically a liar and the enemy.

Trump openly and on the international stage took the side of Putin over our own intelligence agencies.

He openly lied about what he knew about COVID, downplayed it, openly shit on on one of the most knowledgeable and dedicated infectious disease experts, resulting in the unnecessary deaths of tens of thousands, if not more, Americans.

He gave tacit, even open approval, to white nationalists. Open racism, as seen on this forum and elsewhere, has become normalized.

His constant lies and distortions have normalized that behavior. His supporters ignore and/or condone it.

I’m not sure that Republicans, in general, don’t love or trust America. I think even Trump supporters, in their own twisted way, still love this country. But, they have allowed their minds to be poisoned by a toxic person. We’ve seen it before in cult leaders. Now, we’ve experienced it in one of our political leaders.

Awesome post.

Truly awesome.

It's hard to succinctly sum up Trump and his following. There is so much going on there. So much wrongdoing and misleading.

You've done it.

Well said.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

So, we have to figure it out

why haven't you figured it out already.....seems pretty obvious to everyone else.......seven years of investigations, two impeachments, the open admission that the only reason is to "keep Trump from running in 2024"......did you seriously think something else was going to happen?.....

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello McRocket,

Okay.
Where is your link that scientifically proves that all of the right feels the way you are assuming?
MAGA morons/the far right do not make up the entire right.



The point of the OP - as I see it - is you making grandiose assumptions about tens of millions of people that you have never even met.
I think that is dangerous.

Neither side is going to get anywhere so long as they make sweeping assumptions about the entirety of 'the other side'.

There is embracing and there is condoning.

Does it really matter, in the big picture?

When it comes to wrongdoing...

Looking the other way is as effective as doing the deed.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

They are fascists.

idiots posting crap like this is also a factor......

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello BartenderElite,

Do you ever feel like you're blowing whatever it is way out of proportion?

Another way to ask that - what can't you do that you want to do? We live more free and prosperous lives than 99.9% of people who ever lived on this planet, and certainly have more opportunity. Why do you see things as so terrible?

Hard to figure, isn't it?

It only begins to make sense when one thing is considered:

Constant bombardment with misinformation.

Through the big money funded right wing media propaganda machine, and through peer pressure and rumor.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

And Trump is without sin.

he is less at fault than you are.....

 

[domer76]

You are a bit younger so you never got to experience what we experienced. It is harder for you to understand never having actually lived it. Heres the thing,.......Most of us who feel the way we do are at least in our 50's , like myself. At that age there really is nothing the LW or socialists can do to us,....we are quite set. Considering those facts,.....the frustrating part is we are not fighting for ourselves, like I said,...we are set. We are actually fighting for YOU! We fight for the younger people who never got to live the life we lived. Who never had the chance. We dont have to do this, believe you me,... but we choose to,....we do it because we actually care. We dont want American exceptionalism and prosperity to end with us,.....we want you to get your slice too and pay it forward. This is how it has always been done. A better life then those before you. Not worse like it is now. Just the truth......

Interesting that you use the term “to live the life we lived.” Exactly whose life are you talking about? Probably yours and mine. White, middle class, heterosexual male, etc.

Not so much for many in my lifetime, maybe yours. I’m 68.

Now, growing up in Idaho, I didn’t experience nor even witness a lot of the wrongs in the world. No such thing as separate drinking fountains or back of the bus or segregated schools here. No means testing to vote for blacks. No lynchings that I recall. Bi-racial marriages were still looked upon with disdain, however

Being hetero was easy. Being gay was a sin. A shame. A career ender. A life ruiner.

Being male was easy. Credit was easier. Career advancement was easier. Sexual harassment was not exposed or punished.

The list is long.

Is that “the life we lived” you want to return to? THAT America? Because, that’s the America I see that the MAGA crowd wants. And that’s not for me.

 

[Stone]

Tell us what hate feels like.

Does it eat you up at night?
Does it make you want to injure or kill others?
Does it absorb your every thought?

For me? No,...not even close. I dont have that kind of hatred for anyone or anything. Cant speak for anyone else though.

 

[Stone]

Interesting that you use the term “to live the life we lived.” Exactly whose life are you talking about? Probably yours and mine. White, middle class, heterosexual male, etc.

Not so much for many in my lifetime, maybe yours. I’m 68.

Now, growing up in Idaho, I didn’t experience nor even witness a lot of the wrongs in the world. No such thing as separate drinking fountains or back of the bus or segregated schools here. No means testing to vote for blacks. No lynchings that I recall. Bi-racial marriages were still looked upon with disdain, however

Being hetero was easy. Being gay was a sin. A shame. A career ender. A life ruiner.

Being male was easy. Credit was easier. Career advancement was easier. Sexual harassment was not exposed or punished.

The list is long.

Is that “the life we lived” you want to return to? THAT America? Because, that’s the America I see that the MAGA crowd wants. And that’s not for me.

Like almost everyone else you want to pick out all the worst negative aspects of American life and portray them as if it were the majority when we all KNOW it wasnt/isnt. How about being useful and talking about the positive majority while not forgetting about the negative but instead seek to improve it. Cant throw the baby out with the bath water. Its like a bad employer who will bring up every little mistake an employee makes but never mention the positive things the employee does which outweigh the bad at 100 to 1. It is foolish and reckless.

 

[domer76]

For me? No,...not even close. I dont have that kind of hatred for anyone or anything. can speak for anyone else though.

You said you had hatred for what’s been done.

Where is that hatred directed? Must be at someone or something.

My feeling is that the word “hate” is overused. Just like many other terms we see on these sites.

Fascist
Marxist
Socialist
Communist

On and on.

There IS hate, however. I see it in the posts by Shoresy, Text Drivers, volsrock, etc. I don’t see it in you.

 

[Stone]

You said you had hatred for what’s been done.

Where is that hatred directed? Must be at someone or something.

My feeling is that the word “hate” is overused. Just like many other terms we see on these sites.

Fascist
Marxist
Socialist
Communist

On and on.

There IS hate, however. I see it in the posts by Shoresy, Text Drivers, volsrock, etc. I don’t see it in you.

Well,....thats a start at having some good common ground. Thank you. Oh, ...believe you me, I get angry at times,....real angry. But thats different IMO then walking around 24/7 with actual hatred for your fellow man. Nope,...thats not me.

 

[domer76]

Like almost everyone else you want to pick out all the worst negative aspects of American life and portray them as if it were the majority when we all KNOW it wasnt/isnt. How about being useful and talking about the positive majority while not forgetting about the negative but instead seek to improve it. Cant throw the baby out with the bath water. Its like a bad employer who will bring up every little mistake an employee makes but never mention the positive things the employee does which outweigh the bad at 100 to 1. It is foolish and reckless.

I’m merely referring to what I see when the MAGA cultists use their mantra. THAT’S the America I see them wanting. A return to the 50s, where everything was a Mayberry, Leave it to Beaver, or Ozzie and Harriet.

It wasn’t.

 

[domer76]

Well,....thats a start at having some good common ground. Thank you. Oh, ...believe you me, I get angry at times,....real angry. But thats different IMO then walking around 24/7 with actual hatred for your fellow man. Nope,...thats not me.

Good. Try to drop that word from your vocabulary. Most of us don’t really know how it feels. Thank goodness.

 

[Stone]

Also,...Im a far cry from being a saint, to say the least...LOL,...but the fact is, my hate is much more of the Biblical type. The whole hate the sin not the sinner thing. More like that.