Republican says RINO Paul "unelectable", cites "racist comments"

  • Thread starter Thread starter Guns Guns Guns
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apple0154 said:
There is a difference between objecting to a Police state and saying they should be fined for failure to protect everyone.
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not when that same police department and city government is denying you the right to protect yourself, instead forcing you to rely on that very police department for protection.

apple0154 said:
An inquiry should be done.
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which goes back to exactly what I stated earlier. the secretary of that department will simply tell congress that they either don't have enough money or the laws that they have to enforce are not strict enough and they need the help of congress to fix whatever they fucked up. case in point, fast and furious.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
not when that same police department and city government is denying you the right to protect yourself, instead forcing you to rely on that very police department for protection.
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I agree. One should have the right to protect their property.

which goes back to exactly what I stated earlier. the secretary of that department will simply tell congress that they either don't have enough money or the laws that they have to enforce are not strict enough and they need the help of congress to fix whatever they fucked up. case in point, fast and furious.
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Then people have to organize and get the law changed.
 
apple0154 said:
Two different things. If the Police are doing a good job except in one case that shouldn't stop baseline increases. An inquiry is needed.
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My questions have not been about police and you know they haven't, that is a rather obvious straw man. When police malfunction "in one case" and are otherwise doing a wonderful job they should pay, just as a corporation would pay for a life affecting mistake.

When government entities fail do you believe that there should be something in place to stop automatic baseline increases at all? Ever?

So far you've said there should be inquiries if a government entity has failed wholesale, but you have yet to say that anything should ever be shut down even in abject failure. You won't even state that a failed government entity should not receive their automatic baseline increase. What if, during the inquiry, they insist that "more money" is the solution to their failure without any evidence suggesting that any change would be made in the already failed program?
 
Damocles said:
My questions have not been about police and you know they haven't, that is a rather obvious straw man. When police malfunction "in one case" and are otherwise doing a wonderful job they should pay, just as a corporation would pay for a life affecting mistake.

When government entities fail do you believe that there should be something in place to stop automatic baseline increases at all? Ever?

So far you've said there should be inquiries if a government entity has failed wholesale, but you have yet to say that anything should ever be shut down even in abject failure. You won't even state that a failed government entity should not receive their automatic baseline increase. What if, during the inquiry, they insist that "more money" is the solution to their failure without any evidence suggesting that any change would be made in the already failed program?
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In most cases it's a lack of staff. This conversation started with STY commenting on the USDA/FDA and the e-coli outbreak and should they be held responsible. I compared it to the Police not being able to prevent all crime. Nothing straw man about that. An inquiry would quickly determine if more inspectors are needed. Of course, we can hear the whining and bitching from the Right about too much government involvement. It's a "damned if they do, damned if they don't" scenario.
 
apple0154 said:
In most cases it's a lack of staff. This conversation started with STY commenting on the USDA/FDA and the e-coli outbreak and should they be held responsible. I compared it to the Police not being able to prevent all crime. Nothing straw man about that. An inquiry would quickly determine if more inspectors are needed. Of course, we can hear the whining and bitching from the Right about too much government involvement. It's a "damned if they do, damned if they don't" scenario.
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so, in essence, I was correct when you'd allow the department secretary to announce to congress that it needed a bigger budget and they would be able to do the job. this would obviously lead to an increase in taxes (which I know you love anyway) and hiring of more people (jobs, yay) and a shit ton more bureaucracy and paperwork (which increases cost, so more taxes, which you love) and the end result would be another missed outbreak, some more deaths, and then more people needed.

keep in mind, this could also apply to police agencies across the country, so I would ask you if you would require adding two zeros to the number of law enforcement personnel on the streets, say from 600,000 currently to make it 60,000,000. would 60 million cops on the streets prevent crime?
 
SmarterThanYou said:
so, in essence, I was correct when you'd allow the department secretary to announce to congress that it needed a bigger budget and they would be able to do the job. this would obviously lead to an increase in taxes (which I know you love anyway) and hiring of more people (jobs, yay) and a shit ton more bureaucracy and paperwork (which increases cost, so more taxes, which you love) and the end result would be another missed outbreak, some more deaths, and then more people needed.

keep in mind, this could also apply to police agencies across the country, so I would ask you if you would require adding two zeros to the number of law enforcement personnel on the streets, say from 600,000 currently to make it 60,000,000. would 60 million cops on the streets prevent crime?
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Not necessarily a bigger budget. Maybe the testing procedures were faulty. Maybe the produce was from a foreign country and the shipment was overlooked. Maybe have all produce shipped through central points to be tested. The point is have an inquiry to find out what the problem was.

As for crime, again, do a study/inquiry. Maybe it's just a matter of moving officers to different areas. Or having cameras at certain trouble spots. Find out the problem, what can be done to correct it, then do it!

That reminded me of the black man on SNL who would say, "Just do it!" He was funny as hell! HA!
 
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