Repeal the second amendment

FUCK THE POLICE

911 EVERY DAY
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2007/04/18/second_amendment/



April 18, 2007 * WASHINGTON -- Fifteen unambiguous words are all that would be required to quell the American-as-apple-pie cycle of gun violence that has now tearfully enshrined Virginia Tech in the record book of mass murder. Here are the 15 words that would deliver a mortal wound to our bang-bang culture of death: "The second article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby repealed."

Even Pollyanna on Prozac would acknowledge the daunting odds against repeal. Steering an anti-gun constitutional amendment through, say, the Montana or Missouri legislatures (approval of three-quarters of the states is required for ratification) would be a task on par with cleaning the Augean stables. But the benefits of separating gun owners from their extraordinary constitutional protections should not be ignored. Without the Second Amendment, firearms could be regulated by the federal government in the same fashion as any other potentially dangerous devices, from coal-mine elevators to single-engine planes. While there is no way to guarantee that another Cho Seung-Hui would be deprived of access to a Glock, hitting the delete button on the Second Amendment surely would lower the odds against future mayhem.

Questioning the very existence of the Second Amendment would also transform the increasingly sterile congressional debates -- when they even occur -- over firearms. Gun control has become one of those quixotic crusades that conjure up noble intentions, overblown rhetoric and political defeat. The cause seems as moribund and musty as a Dukakis sticker on a Volvo. Congress even lacks the political gumption to revive the expired Clinton-era ban on assault weapons, firearms that are more useful for storming beachheads than hunting deer. Instead of regulating guns, the Republican Congress moved boldly in 2005 to shield gun manufacturers from class action suits. And just last month, a federal appeals court overturned the no-nonsense District of Columbia law outlawing handguns as a violation of the Second Amendment.

Despite a decade-long string of such political victories, the National Rifle Association still revels in the apocalyptic imagery of liberal jackboots trampling on the constitutionally guaranteed freedoms of gun-loving patriots. After the Democrats took control of Congress last November, the NRA issued a brochure that began ominously, "Second Amendment freedom today stands naked in the path of a marching axis of adversaries far darker and more dangerous than gun owners have ever known."

Small wonder that liberals have become timorous under fire from the NRA militants. When even the most modest reforms -- such as regulating gun sales between private individuals -- are ridiculed as radical nostrums, it is hard for politicians to justify squandering their political capital on a seemingly hopeless cause. Frustrated by the constraints imposed by the right-to-bear-arms language in the Second Amendment, proponents of gun-control legislation have always worked on the margins. "Close the gun-show loophole" is not likely to be remembered as one of the most stirring slogans in political history.

The result has been a blunt form of cost-benefit analysis among politicians. If federal gun-control efforts mandating background checks and waiting periods do not solve the larger problem of too many unstable Americans shooting first and asking questions later (insert Dick Cheney reference here), why risk political defeat to uphold and expand these modest laws? Even in the battle to save lives from gun violence, senators and congressmen are understandably reluctant to gamble with their own careers.

Since the NRA would probably claim that legislation to ban private possession of atomic weapons is part of a plot to destroy the Second Amendment, maybe it is time for liberals to stop denying the charge. Authenticity and truth-telling often work better in politics than weaselly and palpably insincere statements like, "No one is more dedicated a hunter and lover of the Second Amendment than I am, but..." If gun-control advocates are going to be hanged in effigy for their views, they should at least have the momentary enjoyment of making a speech from the scaffold expressing their true sentiments. Without having to endlessly fret about the constitutionality of any regulatory effort to reduce gun-related deaths, liberals might be able to directly discuss the benefits of such legislation in terms that even open-minded members of the NRA might appreciate.

Looking at the Bill of Rights with more than two centuries' hindsight, it is simply irrational that firearms have a protected position on par with freedom of speech and religion. Were Americans -- liberal or conservative -- writing a Constitution completely from scratch today, they probably would agree that something akin to "freedom to drive" was more far important than the "right to bear arms." The rights of state militias (which many liberal legal theorists argue is the essence of the Second Amendment) are as much a throwback to an 18th century mind-set as restrictions on quartering soldiers in private homes during peacetime (the little-remembered Third Amendment).

At the moment, of course, repealing the Second Amendment seems as politically plausible as welcoming Iraq as the 51st state. But think of how many other causes have gone from the radical to the routine in a single generation. Not even a decade ago, civil unions for gay couples seemed laughably utopian. Now it is the bipartisan middle-ground position in both parties (insert second Cheney reference). When the conservative Federalist Society was founded in 1982 with the goal of combating the liberal tilt to the federal judiciary, not even its founders could have imagined how successful they would be a quarter-century later.

Times change, generations pass and attitudes evolve. As fears of crime recede in many places, nervous homeowners may no longer be obsessed with having a .45 by the bedside to blow away phantom intruders. There is also an implicit racial component here with the bygone Archie Bunker generation having a specific image of exactly whom they feared climbing in a window at night. Even the fearsome NRA may well sharply decline as a political force, much as once-fierce-jawed interest groups like the American Legion and the labor movement have grown increasingly toothless over the past quarter-century.

Against this backdrop, liberals should look at the firearms issue from a long-term perspective, instead of going into a fetal crouch over how gun control will play in the next election. A repeal movement would at best take 15 to 20 years to reach critical mass, so this is not the moment to play litmus-test politics and require White House contenders to take self-defeating positions guaranteed to be excoriated in attack ads in West Virginia. But this would be an appropriate time for overly earnest gun-controllers to rethink their tone and their rhetoric to better understand why their opponents are so politically adept at tarring them as elitists. After all, hunters and marksmen no more need the Second Amendment to practice their sports than archers and race-car drivers require similar constitutional protection.

Rather than ducking a debate with the conservatives over the eternal primacy of the Second Amendment, gun-control backers should embrace it. Since right-wing Republicans are zealously championing constitutional amendments on everything from abortion to a balanced budget, it would take intellectual jujitsu for them to explain why the First Amendment is worthy of improvement (by severing flag burning from free speech), but the Second Amendment unquestionably must remain sacrosanct. For only in Tom Clancy-esque mythology are weekend hunters carrying assault weapons a bulwark against tyranny. Only in a nation forged by 18th century concerns about liberty and states' rights do firearms have a hallowed place in the Constitution.

It doesn't have to be that way. Any more than we as Americans have to continually face the real-life meaning of that gruesome, blood-soaked, gun-toting word "massacre" because of the outmoded language of the Second Amendment.


:cof1:
 
one incident in the history of this country will guarantee that repeal talk gets nowhere.

Los Angeles riots.

now, come on watermarxist. lets go shooting. :inno:
 
You must be trolling. Either that or you are fucking stupid. Such an amendment would fail and the proponents would be thrown out of office.

We have had eight years of federal government power grabs and the only ideas you can come up with is new power grabs from a left bias? How about reducing the power of the imperial Presidency, restoring civil liberties lost under Bush or cleaning up the foreign policy messes he created?
 
You must be trolling. Either that or you are fucking stupid. Such an amendment would fail and the proponents would be thrown out of office.

We have had eight years of federal government power grabs and the only ideas you can come up with is new power grabs from a left bias? How about reducing the power of the imperial Presidency, restoring civil liberties lost under Bush or cleaning up the foreign policy messes he created?

He is posting from the Onion which is a satire newspaper.
 
He is posting from the Onion which is a satire newspaper.
No, he is not. The article was written by Walter Shapiro, a far left pundit who writes for USA Today. He has been a strong supporter of Obama, and has also been a proponent of draconian gun control since he became a writer. This is NOT satire, though one would think so considering itss absolute ridiculous position.

As far as hydroencephalitis goes, I do not know if he is just a mindless troll out for attention (mommy didn't hug him enough) or one who honestly thinks government is needed to tuck us all in at night (because mommy didn't hug him enough). Either way, his totalitarian idiocy is, IMO, best left completely ignored.
 
people are taking you less and less seriously by the day watermark. you are basically just becoming noise.
 
Right wingers want to fuck with the constitution by banning gay marriage and flag burning. I don't see why we can't either.
 
Right wingers want to fuck with the constitution by banning gay marriage and flag burning. I don't see why we can't either.
Have at it you fascist fucks. But it takes far more states than you have to ratify a new amendment.

If fact damned few politicians would vote for such an amendment - they want to keep their jobs. Only a few highly urbanized districts would reelect a politician that screws with the Bill of Rights.

But I seriously hope you and your fascist totalitarian buddies give it a try. I hope your democratic totalitarians in congress are stupid enough to vote for it, too. You'll end up with the shortest democratic regain of power in history - and give the republican party a good shot at their own filibuster proof (if not veto proof) congress.

The republican party has all but self destructed, and is open for a chance at rebuilding into a good party representing good ideals. If the democratic party would follow suit, we may have a chance at a truly decent country again.
 
Have at it you fascist fucks. But it takes far more states than you have to ratify a new amendment.

If fact damned few politicians would vote for such an amendment - they want to keep their jobs. Only a few highly urbanized districts would reelect a politician that screws with the Bill of Rights.

But I seriously hope you and your fascist totalitarian buddies give it a try. I hope your democratic totalitarians in congress are stupid enough to vote for it, too. You'll end up with the shortest democratic regain of power in history - and give the republican party a good shot at their own filibuster proof (if not veto proof) congress.

The republican party has all but self destructed, and is open for a chance at rebuilding into a good party representing good ideals. If the democratic party would follow suit, we may have a chance at a truly decent country again.
While I agree with you wholeheartedly when it comes to the second amendment, the rights attempted attack on flag burning is no less totalitarian than this. You and I both served our country. Not once did I swear to protect and defend the flag but I did swear to protect and defend the constitution. Unfortunately I don't think very many in uniform understand what that means. It means not letting people weaken the consitution including the amendments. the second as well as the ninth.
 
It is often that I hear a righty complaining about the rights found in the first amendment, or requesting repeal of the eight. That is the mainstream right in America.
 
While I agree with you wholeheartedly when it comes to the second amendment, the rights attempted attack on flag burning is no less totalitarian than this. You and I both served our country. Not once did I swear to protect and defend the flag but I did swear to protect and defend the constitution. Unfortunately I don't think very many in uniform understand what that means. It means not letting people weaken the consitution including the amendments. the second as well as the ninth.
Why do you assume I ever supported a ban on burning the flag? We both served to protect that very right.

I will fight totalitarianism in all its forms, even when it would ban a form of expression I personally disagree with. Spent 40 years of my life dedicated to that principle. I swore on 11 different occasions (original and each reenlistment) to support and defend the Constitution. That includes the WHOLE thing, from Article I, Section 1 through Amendment 27.

I did not like it when the republicans in power tried to circumvent constitutional protections, and I do not like when democrats do the same.

One credit I do give to this thread: at least some are finally recognizing the right to keep and bear arms is a full blown individual right, and want to change it by the means prescribed instead of depending on the courts system to play fast and loose with their interpretations.
 
I don't believe in natural rights. That's "nonsense on stilts", to quote Jeremy Bentham.

But I do think it's an amendment to the constitution.
 
While I agree with you wholeheartedly when it comes to the second amendment, the rights attempted attack on flag burning is no less totalitarian than this. You and I both served our country. Not once did I swear to protect and defend the flag but I did swear to protect and defend the constitution. Unfortunately I don't think very many in uniform understand what that means. It means not letting people weaken the consitution including the amendments. the second as well as the ninth.

oohrah. THIS :readit: constitution. protect and defend. semper fi.
 
It is often that I hear a righty complaining about the rights found in the first amendment, or requesting repeal of the eight. That is the mainstream right in America.

that would be the centrist right, not the mainstream right. If it were mainstream right, you'd see protection of ALL the amendments.
 
It is often that I hear a righty complaining about the rights found in the first amendment, or requesting repeal of the eight. That is the mainstream right in America.
I seriously doubt you have every heard any conservative complaining about rights found in the first amendment. At most some may complain about how some in the media ignore responsibility when they exercise their rights.

Ditto the 8th.

Bottom line, I am accusing you of lying, Mr. Hydroencephalitis.
 
I seriously doubt you have every heard any conservative complaining about rights found in the first amendment. At most some may complain about how some in the media ignore responsibility when they exercise their rights.

Ditto the 8th.

Bottom line, I am accusing you of lying, Mr. Hydroencephalitis.

Have you considered the possibility that the "conservatives" referred to are so ignorant of the contents of any amendment that what Mr Watermark speaks is the truth. He does live in Mississippi, after all.
 
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