Reality

katiegrrl0 said:
Are you in the top 2% of wage earners or in the top 10% for that matter. Why would you go on about protecting them if you are not? They certainly don't care about you and yours. So why do you care so much about that economic groups wage protections? They aren't looking out for you in any way. It must be nice for them to have the poor folks watching out for their well being.
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Katie, do poor people create jobs?

Didn't think so.

IMO, we will have to raise taxes on the wealthy out of sheer necessity. What I disagree with is the left's class-warfare mentality on the issue. The fact of the matter is, the top 10% is responsible for 60% of tax revenues. Most of that is paid by the top 1% (40% of revenues).

http://www.gold-speculator.com/atta...6329d1262475176-road-perdition-taxation10.png

That is why the title of this thread is so ridiculous -- it could not be any farther from "reality."

Bill Gates revolutionized the software industry, and I make a good living as a result. What have YOU done to change the world? Have you created hundreds of thousands of jobs? Have you donated billions of dollars to improve living conditions in third-world countries?
 
King of Gods said:
Katie, do poor people create jobs?

Didn't think so.

IMO, we will have to raise taxes on the wealthy out of sheer necessity. What I disagree with is the left's class-warfare mentality on the issue. The fact of the matter is, the top 10% is responsible for 60% of tax revenues. Most of that is paid by the top 1% (40% of revenues).

http://www.gold-speculator.com/atta...6329d1262475176-road-perdition-taxation10.png

That is why the title of this thread is so ridiculous -- it could not be any farther from "reality."

Bill Gates revolutionized the software industry, and I make a good living as a result. What have YOU done to change the world? How many jobs have you created?
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How many jobs have the wealthy been creating as of late. I don't see the work force out there to capacity. Small business is started by those that are not wealthy all the time. People who earn less than $200000 a year are not wealthy but they start businesses. Most of the businesses in your area are owned not by the ultra rich that you are protecting. They may own the gas station or the grocery chain but the poor mum and pop business owners do the most for you and the economy. Yet you want to protect those that make $10000 X an hour to your $1. That just seems very odd. It is not the ultra rich that will help the US out as you think. Consider how many jobs they did not provide with the tax break you more than likely supported for them. The ultra rich do not give a rats behind about you or your wife and kids if you have them.

Okay Bill gates created jobs. So it is alright for him to stand on the throat of the American worker while his does so. Please
 
katiegrrl0 said:
How many jobs have the wealthy been creating as of late. I don't see the work force out there to capacity. Small business is started by those that are not wealthy all the time. People who earn less than $200000 a year are not wealthy but they start businesses. Most of the businesses in your area are owned not by the ultra rich that you are protecting. They may own the gas station or the grocery chain but the poor mum and pop business owners do the most for you and the economy. Yet you want to protect those that make $10000 X an hour to your $1. That just seems very odd. It is not the ultra rich that will help the US out as you think. Consider how many jobs they did not provide with the tax break you more than likely supported for them. The ultra rich do not give a rats behind about you or your wife and kids if you have them.

Okay Bill gates created jobs. So it is alright for him to stand on the throat of the American worker while his does so. Please
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I make a living because of the contributions wealthy people have made to society. Sorry, but small businesses do not produce airplanes and microprocessors. And FYI, we are not living in the 19th century anymore.

Furthermore, many large corporations had their start as small businesses. Microsoft is the perfect example.

Can you provide an example of Bill Gates stepping on the throat of the worker? Your rhetoric is Marxist to the extreme.
 
King of Guns said:
So you go and lease cars with no intention of ever driving them, or no ability to drive them? Same principle. Why pay for what you cannot or will not use?
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Same reason anyone would want it, in case they need it. Plenty of rich people rely on S.S., near the end of their lives.
 
King of Gods said:
Katie, do poor people create jobs?

Didn't think so.

IMO, we will have to raise taxes on the wealthy out of sheer necessity. What I disagree with is the left's class-warfare mentality on the issue. The fact of the matter is, the top 10% is responsible for 60% of tax revenues. Most of that is paid by the top 1% (40% of revenues).


http://www.gold-speculator.com/atta...y the wealthy create jobs. With actual proof.
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Holden Caulfield said:
Prove that only the wealthy create jobs. With actual proof.
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I never made any such claim, so why are you asking me to prove this? What I said is poor people do not create jobs. All jobs are created by upper-middle and wealthy people.

But then, I suppose in your world, since there are only the haves and the have-nots, when I say "poor people do not create jobs," you interpret that as meaning only rich people create jobs.
 
King of Gods said:
I never made any such claim, so why are you asking me to prove this? What I said is poor people do not create jobs. All jobs are created by upper-middle and wealthy people.

But then, I suppose in your world, since there are only the haves and the have-nots, when I say "poor people do not create jobs," you interpret that as meaning only rich people create jobs.
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Take II. Reworded to account for the painfully concrete thought process of the conservative, prove that poor people do not create jobs.
 
Damocles said:
Means test it at both sides, the wealthy will not need it so let them opt out of it if they don't want it. Make a "self-insurance" plan that allows them to opt out without penalty.
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I disagree.....means test it for need on the payout but make everyone pay in.....there will be some idiot who will lose his life savings investing in Enron and want to collect even though he never paid in.....and, since we don't want him to starve to death, we will let him.....therefore, no one can opt out of paying in......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
I disagree.....means test it for need on the payout but make everyone pay in.....there will be some idiot who will lose his life savings investing in Enron and want to collect even though he never paid in.....and, since we don't want him to starve to death, we will let him.....therefore, no one can opt out of paying in......
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A first that I know of.
 
King of Gods said:
I make a living because of the contributions wealthy people have made to society. Sorry, but small businesses do not produce airplanes and microprocessors. And FYI, we are not living in the 19th century anymore.

Furthermore, many EVERY large corporations had their start as small businesses. Microsoft is the perfect example.

Can you provide an example of Bill Gates stepping on the throat of the worker? Your rhetoric is Marxist to the extreme.
Click to expand...
FTFY
 
King of Gods said:
I make a living because of the contributions wealthy people have made to society. Sorry, but small businesses do not produce airplanes and microprocessors. And FYI, we are not living in the 19th century anymore.

Furthermore, many large corporations had their start as small businesses. Microsoft is the perfect example.

Can you provide an example of Bill Gates stepping on the throat of the worker? Your rhetoric is Marxist to the extreme.
Click to expand...

Yes the example is his check book in comparison to those that make the products that he takes the profit from. That is the prime example. When they are all in nearly the same bracket of earnings than i would say that he doesn't have his foot on their necks. When he cuts all of his prices in half to help all consumers than i would say he doesn't have his foot on their necks. Until that time defending him if you are not earning like he does is foolish. I know how business works and I know that business grows and loyal employees deserve to make more in a larger % as they help to make that company thrive. When owners and shareholder suck 90% of the profits and leave the last 10% for the rest it is the rape of the worker and you seem to like this policy or you would not defend it so adamantly. So I would say that you must be one of those in the top 10% of wage earners or you enjoy getting the shaft with each payroll check.
 
King of Gods said:
I never made any such claim, so why are you asking me to prove this? What I said is poor people do not create jobs. All jobs are created by upper-middle and wealthy people.

But then, I suppose in your world, since there are only the haves and the have-nots, when I say "poor people do not create jobs," you interpret that as meaning only rich people create jobs.
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anyone can create a job. One needs not be rich to create a job. I create a job when I hire a plumber to fix the sink. You create a job when you hire the neighbors child to mow your lawn. One does not need to have the wealth of the world at their disposal to create jobs. They also do not need the people that carry the bulk of the work defending them at their own peril.
 
King of Guns said:
What jobs have you created?
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I create jobs. I have 6 full time employees and i work out of the home. I employ an entire construction team as they are renovating my abode. That is job creation. When i hire the framer to plow the street that is a job I create. When I purchased wood to heat my home this winter it created several jobs. We create jobs everyday if you just look at the scope of what employment means. A person that does not drive and takes public transportation or cabs is helping toward creation of jobs. When you purchase something you are in a sense creating a job. If you were not buying there would be no need to have the store clerk.
 
Regarding paying into SS people tend to forget there was a time when there was no SS. People had all the freedom to invest as they saw fit but few "saw fit". :lol:

I'm always perplexed when people talk about dismantling government programs, "privatizing" them, as if those programs have always been in existence. SS, medicare, medicaid, welfare.....

Let's try a different approach, folks say. Don't they know a different approach (privatize) was tried before any of those programs came into existence? Private pensions (investing) and private medical and private charity were all tried before and didn't work. That's why Obama told the Repubs not to come to the table with tired, worn out ideas. Tried and failed ideas. Every single government program came into existence because of necessity, because every "private" idea failed and failed miserably.

When people talk about privatizing a program there's only one answer: It's been tried and failed.

What more needs to be said?
 
apple0154 said:
Regarding paying into SS people tend to forget there was a time when there was no SS. People had all the freedom to invest as they saw fit but few "saw fit". :lol:

I'm always perplexed when people talk about dismantling government programs, "privatizing" them, as if those programs have always been in existence. SS, medicare, medicaid, welfare.....

Let's try a different approach, folks say. Don't they know a different approach (privatize) was tried before any of those programs came into existence? Private pensions (investing) and private medical and private charity were all tried before and didn't work. That's why Obama told the Repubs not to come to the table with tired, worn out ideas. Tried and failed ideas. Every single government program came into existence because of necessity, because every "private" idea failed and failed miserably.

When people talk about privatizing a program there's only one answer: It's been tried and failed.

What more needs to be said?
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The goal of the conservative mind is to make more money for those that already have enough. They don't care at all about those that make under 1M a year. What is really funny is that most of the conservatives don't make that much so they like to get the shaft.
 
katiegrrl0 said:
Yes the example is his check book in comparison to those that make the products that he takes the profit from. That is the prime example. When they are all in nearly the same bracket of earnings than i would say that he doesn't have his foot on their necks. When he cuts all of his prices in half to help all consumers than i would say he doesn't have his foot on their necks. Until that time defending him if you are not earning like he does is foolish. I know how business works and I know that business grows and loyal employees deserve to make more in a larger % as they help to make that company thrive. When owners and shareholder suck 90% of the profits and leave the last 10% for the rest it is the rape of the worker and you seem to like this policy or you would not defend it so adamantly. So I would say that you must be one of those in the top 10% of wage earners or you enjoy getting the shaft with each payroll check.
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Wow, I'm speechless. Everything you said appears to be straight out of the Communist Manifesto.

No, you have no clue how business works -- that has become rather obvious. People start businesses because they desire to make a profit. Remove that incentive, and there is no reason to start a business. If Bill Gates knew he would have to work his ass off to make the same amount of money as an entry-level software tester, do you think he would have bothered? Fuck no. People innovate because they want to get rich, that's how America works. Love it or leave it!
 
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